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Jean-Luc

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Stream link: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/327257301?collection=cOr2a6Q_UhWBow

1. 03:25 - It's really cool there's race specific visual customization, being able to select horns, mandibles and tails for Kir'Ko instead of just generic face and body type. Lots of modding potential.

2. 04:30 - Once the initial city lands it immediately spawns a road, not just in its own sector but also the neighboring one stretching into the shroud. Is this intended? Seems like you can use the road to easily find an npc town.

3. 06:00 - The Paragon, an npc faction, have a naval unit apparently. I wonder if they all do. Can you encounter aquatic Growth?

4. 07:45 - So rivers slow down movement, earlier tooltip showed 16mp needed for a river hex, but do roads eliminate that penalty?

5. 08:35 - The tooltip for Cleansing Surge says "The target non-mechanical (unit) has all Status Effects dispelled". I know it's minor but please consider changing "dispelled" to something like purged, cleansed or removed. The word (di)spell directly references magic/fantasy and clashes with the sci-fi theme.

6. 09:40 - Mantra of Clarity tooltip says "Psionic buffs from this unit now make friendly units 25% harder to hit". I wonder if this applies to Swarm Shield because that could be a strong combo. Yes, SS just kinda passively activates, it doesn't come from one specific unit but the wording could be misleading.

7. 14:18 - Some kind of static artillery structure or anti-space gun? Looks cool.

8. 17:35 - So the garrison can basically act like an 8th army, you could have up to 48 units in a single battle? That's not a bad advantage for the defender.

9. 18:24 - Tall grass (wheat?) provides a cover bonus but it also has health? So it can be "destroyed", maybe set fire to the field and the fire spreads?

10. 20:02 - The Celestian unit's hands look a bit claw-like. I wonder if that's an adaptation to the Kir'Ko body type or just coincidence. It's still not clear if secret tech units will change appearance based on race.

11. 23:37 - The Paragon Soldier weapon effects make me wanna dance. :p Their attacks can also stun. Mechanical units only?

Anyway, interesting battle. I liked how resilient most units were as long as they were somewhat protected. It allowed dmg over time effects to have more of an impact, I've always found things like bleed to not be very useful in AoW3. The Kir'Ko shield buff was really powerful, there was a stark contrast in the survivability of units under Swarm Shield and those not benefiting from it. The Aegis Tank looked imposing but didn't perform well from what I saw, I guess it's more of a support unit. Ironically it's the low tier units that seemed to do the most damage with the exception of the Tormented, that thing is nasty.

One interesting thing about the Kir'Ko is that they actually have access to 3 dmg types rather than 2 because of all the kinetic melee dmg even if it isn't a separate tech group for them.
 
Last edited:

Tombles

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The Aegis tank is a support unit that's supposed to keep other units safe, and it does so really well. When Len was practicing the fight he could barely kill any of the group around the tank. Then he started using melee units, and their attacks bypass shields, so the tank was nullified. This also explains why the kir'ko were so hard to kill, the opposing army had only 1 melee unit, so swarm shields were very effective.

And yeah, of the high tier units, only the Tormented and Ravenous are actually high damage units. The rest were all support :)
 

Jolly Joker

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For me the obvious observation from the stream is, that the tactical turn-based combat part in Planetfall blows everything out of the water. It looks to be a giant step from AoW 3, which already was pretty good, and considering that the strategic part of the game will see a major improvement as well, the game looks to be firmly on course to set a new benchmark for these kind of games.

I couldn't watch the stream live yesterday, but watched it at lunch break, and there are so many awesome details in that battle that you could spend hours to just weigh your options and what action will be best (I found myself wishing Lennart would handle the right flank differently after the first turn). I just hope to the Hive Mind that the AI will be able to handle all that HALFway decently...
 

BloodyBattleBrain

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I am led to understand Lennart practiced that fight beforehand!

Anyway if the AI is as good as AoW3 then that will be good enough for most players.

Ofcourse I would like better, but that's obvious.☺☺
 

Jolly Joker

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Well, :) what I mean is, that I would have handled it differently; I mean, I'd probably set the units up differently as well, but with the setup chosen and after the first turn in connection with the shield increase of the "spell" cast, I'd have looked to pull the middle and the right flank back a bit and defend with everything except the heavy hitter, forming the anvil, while letting the left flank be the hammer even more pronouncedly.

Now, it might well be that this would have made for a worse result - that's not actually my point. Which is, that there are now so many more options, due to the "active" surroundings. Burning hexes, stuff to demolish (or not), flanking, overwatch, staggering - I mean, think about the impact of flying units in that battle (in addition)...

Anyway, at this point I think Planetfall might really become THE game (for me) more so than AoW 3 already was (is), simply because it will make even the simple battles awesome and the more complex ones epic.
 

BloodyBattleBrain

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Yes I agree with you for.once.


It's almost like they conducted a bunch of surveys, identified what worked well and not so well in aow3, decided to "fix" the deficiencies and amplify the good stuff, and wrap it all in a new coat of paint.
 

LennartGS

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The Aegis Tank looked imposing but didn't perform well from what I saw, I guess it's more of a support unit. Ironically it's the low tier units that seemed to do the most damage with the exception of the Tormented, that thing is nasty.

The Tormented got a happy moment (must suffer from borderline); did an AoE Critical and wasted a bunch of enemies at once. This didn't happen once when I tested, and the battle got shortened that way. So had to stretch it out a bit / keep some tension. Luckily the Devour succeeded so I could show the Emergent. :)

The amount of depth surprises us still; there are so much more combinations than in AoW3 due to the range mechanics and environment interaction, all the mod combo's and intricate abilities.
 

BloodyBattleBrain

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there are so much more combinations than in AoW3

Yelp.

I'm still re/discovering stuff in AoW3.

Girlfriend wanted to know if there was some.sort of stock market in the game.

She means is there a way to convert cosmite into energy and vice versa?

If not may I suggest a "reactor" tech that does this? Expensive and occupies a colony slot. Could mitigate unfavourable rmg.

And could syndicate maybe get a cheaper or more.efficient version? ☺
 

Jean-Luc

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The Tormented got a happy moment (must suffer from borderline); did an AoE Critical and wasted a bunch of enemies at once.

I noticed white faces floating up when a crit happens. That probably needs to be clearer but I assumed it was a placeholder anyway.

That was a great map. I've a feeling maps (and the cover system) are going to be a major factor in making combat more interesting. There were multiple directions to attack from, overwatch makes choke points more interesting, there was a lot to consider like whether to split up your force or not, rush through the choke point or not, spread units around or keep them together. The "cover bubble" where the dome used to be was pretty nifty. It was like a (relatively) safe place from a support unit could operate from while being hard to get to.

The power of Kir'Ko shields definitely emphasized the unique value of the Valkyrie as a melee unit. I'm kinda hoping for a mod that would allow Battlevomit to heal friendly Kir'Ko.
 

Tomipapa

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11. 23:37 - The Paragon Soldier weapon effects make me wanna dance. :p Their attacks can also stun. Mechanical units only?
I think they had arc damage/stun only because the fanatic overcharged them. Normally, they have kinetic damage just like the Vanguard marines. I know that the electrified status effect only affects mechanical/cyborg units, but i'm not sure about stun.
 

Dr_K

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5. 08:35 - The tooltip for Cleansing Surge says "The target non-mechanical (unit) has all Status Effects dispelled". I know it's minor but please consider changing "dispelled" to something like purged, cleansed or removed. The word (di)spell directly references magic/fantasy and clashes with the sci-fi theme.

Definitely agree with that one. Was a bit odd when reading it.

3. 06:00 - The Paragon, an npc faction, have a naval unit apparently. I wonder if they all do. Can you encounter aquatic Growth?

A bunch of giant sentient Lily Pads and Kelp beds. It would be cool for all of the NPC factions to have naval units of some sort.

Hopefully the Growth's T1/2 flying units don't preclude aquatic plants.

She means is there a way to convert cosmite into energy and vice versa?

If not may I suggest a "reactor" tech that does this? Expensive and occupies a colony slot. Could mitigate unfavourable rmg.

And could syndicate maybe get a cheaper or more.efficient version? ☺

This might be useful as a very, very late game feature, but it wouldn't necessarily make much sense if Cosmite is supposed to be a limiting factor for mods and high tier units. Having access to the reactor too early would be counter-productive to that.

Obviously, we would need to wait and see how the actual in game values pan out during actual gameplay, but linking the energy income directly to a proportional amount of cosmite income overall just seems counter-productive. Since energy needs to be relatively abundant as almost everything uses it, having a conversion during course of a short game might end up with exploits like Inns with T3's from AoW3. Fine tuning the conversion might prove more trouble than it's worth, which would probably end up as a later game function only.

Also, the syndicate can only get a more efficient one as long as the side effects of it turn them more purple and deform their ear :D
 

HousePet

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Here are my notes and questions from watching the stream:
Xenophobic as a negative perk: Negative reaction with non-human based factions (like Kir'ko and Growth). Morale penalty for those units if you have any. Bonus damage against those units.
Does blowing up structures in tactical combat have any effects on the strategic layer this game?
Would still like to have hexes with cover show with a special tint or pattern.
Can you ever move a unit after it has performed a support action? If you can move and then use the action, why is action and then move never possible?
That Valkyrie using a flash grenade had an overly long animation time. Looking later when the Valkyrie is being shot, I think she has faulty animation speeds/timings.
Battle Vomit used at 32:10 says "Flanked" on the enemy and friendly unit. Should you really get a flanking bonus against your own team?
Lennart seems to have trouble hearing me when I'm shouting "Use the Battle Vomit on the PUG!" from the day after the Stream and the other side of the planet. I think he needs some mods.
Does a Ravenous auto spawn Emergent at the end of combat if it is capable of it?
So Metamorphosis options are randomly generated and set on unit spawning?
Why are those rivers flowing inland???
 

BloodyBattleBrain

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Definitely agree with that one. Was a bit odd when reading it.



A bunch of giant sentient Lily Pads and Kelp beds. It would be cool for all of the NPC factions to have naval units of some sort.

Hopefully the Growth's T1/2 flying units don't preclude aquatic plants.



This might be useful as a very, very late game feature, but it wouldn't necessarily make much sense if Cosmite is supposed to be a limiting factor for mods and high tier units. Having access to the reactor too early would be counter-productive to that.

Obviously, we would need to wait and see how the actual in game values pan out during actual gameplay, but linking the energy income directly to a proportional amount of cosmite income overall just seems counter-productive. Since energy needs to be relatively abundant as almost everything uses it, having a conversion during course of a short game might end up with exploits like Inns with T3's from AoW3. Fine tuning the conversion might prove more trouble than it's worth, which would probably end up as a later game function only.

Also, the syndicate can only get a more efficient one as long as the side effects of it turn them more purple and deform their ear :D


Yes ofcourse late game. Or mid game but with *very* significant tradeoff.
 

BloodyBattleBrain

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Why are those rivers flowing inland???

You're assuming they're flowing away from the sea but that body of water could well be a lake.

If you can move and then use the action, why is action and then move never possible?

Usually the action consumes all remaining points.

With 3 action points you get 3 actions, or rather 3 instances of one action, e.g. shoot 3 times.

I can see an argument for a more graded move, shoot, move system but think it'd make the game slower in tactical combat.

Would work better for smaller battles.

I believe phoenix point is doing precisely this? And also (re)introducing limited ammo etc.
 

Jean-Luc

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Moving after attacking is almost never allowed in turn based games because it'd allow kiting which can be very exploitative in a turn based system. When it is possible it's typically a special rule for a skirmisher type of unit and tends to be limited.
 

HousePet

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I was actually referring to moving after using support abilities.
Attacks always use all remaining movement on more attacks. Support abilities don't always need 3 action points, but they always use them for no gain.
 

Jean-Luc

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Same principle applies. It's about making you commit to your position as opposed to "doing something" (which helps you win) and then running. Means you have to think about what you're doing and how vulnerable you are during the enemy turn. In AoW3 single shot attacks also use up all ap even though they can be activated with just 1.

I understand the logic problem you bring up but it's a balance thing and general nature of turn based games whether it's Chess or AoW3. Exceptions are certainly possible though AoW3 didn't have any afaik but maybe there'll be a valid case to be made in Planetfall but it will have to be argued from a balance/gameplay angle rather than a semi-realism one.
 

Jolly Joker

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Battle Vomit used at 32:10 says "Flanked" on the enemy and friendly unit. Should you really get a flanking bonus against your own team?
Sure. The bonus is the result of the attacker's position with regard to the facing of the attacked unit. Bullets are not picky.

The amount of depth surprises us still; there are so much more combinations than in AoW3 due to the range mechanics and environment interaction, all the mod combo's and intricate abilities.
Yep. That battle stream really hammered the message home. I was rather cool about the game - but the battle has really fired me up. I can't wait to start "modding" units, giving them cool names and burn some houses down.

I suppose, there will be a VERY long period of balancing after game release...
 

Nazarow

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Just picking up on one minor detail: the idea that "dispel" simply references magic/fantasy, or even the word "spell" is incorrect. Its etymology comes from latin "pellere", and the word is used for many things, most of which have nothing to do with magic. The fact that it sounds like "spell" seems a silly reason not to use it.

I know this is not a major issue in any way, but the way that perfectly good words get twisted or monopolised by sub-cultures tends to irk me a bit.
 
Last edited:

BloodyBattleBrain

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Just picking up on one minor detail: the idea that "dispel" simply references magic/fantasy, or even the word "spell" is incorrect. Its etymology comes from latin "pellere", and the word is used for many things, most of which have nothing to do with magic. The fact that it sounds like "spell" seems a silly reason not to use it.

I know this is not a major issue in any way, but the way that perfectly good words get twisted or monopolised by sub-cultures tends to irk me a bit.


I'm guessing this is where the spanish "pelear" (to hit, fight) comes from....