Given the new situation where Viceroyalties and vassal limits have been implemented by Paradox, is it planned to allow the Byzantines to set up kingdoms within their own de-jure Empire now?
Kingdoms in the Byzantine Empire
- Thread starter Tarroque
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I imagine it would be pretty cool to have it so that, as the Byzantines expand, they slowly begin to replace the de-jure kingdoms within their empire with the old province borders.
If you are referring to the SWMH setup, i'm the one in charge of the ERE so i can answer that for you. No, i don't plan to unlock the Kingdoms for the Emperor. All of the titles that are locked are either directly related to the 4th Crusade and the situation after 1204 or their suppresion as a separate Kingdom (Bulgaria) had been one of the core goals of Byzantine foreign policy for centuries (680-1185). The Emperor would never have considered devolving that much power to local rulers if he is strong enough to resist it. The outer Kingdoms will still be open, Sicily, Serbia, Armenia, Croatia. But Bulgaria, Epirus, Thessalonika, Nikaea, Iconium and Trebizond will remain closed for the Emperor.
If the ERE de jure assimilates, say, the kingdom of Syria or Hungary.
Oh. No they're not locked. You have to manually lock the particular title in the landed_titles file with this line before they are locked
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liege = { NOT = { has_landed_title = e_byzantium }Oh nice, thanks for replying. I will make the case for unlocking the kingdoms though - Once the Byzantine Empire gets large enough the vassal limit will make it a logical choice to add that layer of administration even to the areas close to Constantinople. Although it would make sense to keep them locked if the underlying assumption is that no significant expansion will take place for the Empire, though that seems like an odd restriction to me in the long run?
You will still be able to centralize the administration of those areas without giving out Kingdom Viceroyalties. You can still create a Super Duchy Viceroyalty, where you combine more than one Duchy in the hands of one ruler.
And i will still claim that even in an expanding Empire the Emperor would be very hesitant to devolve power in those areas. Even in an expanding Empire, Trebizond, Iconium, Nikaea, Thessalonika and Epirus, would form the core of the Empire's power and the Emperor would be accutely aware of this. If we take a look at the historical precedent for Byzantine Viceroyalties, the Theme system, these actually became smaller and smaller in the core area of the Empire as it expanded eastward during the Makedonian dynasty.
I might create some titular Kingdom titles for the area when the Roman Empire has been reformed though. Both as sort of flavour and because if you manage to take enough of the west and the middle east even i won't deny that the Emperor would devolve power in the core areas in the Balkans and in Anatolia.
The late Roman Dioceses of Asiana and Pontus could be possible inspirations for Titular Kingdom titles that only the restored Roman Empire would be able to access.
And looking on the European side of the strait the late Roman Dioceses of Thrace and Macedonia could be possible inspirations for titular Kingdom titles.
And i will still claim that even in an expanding Empire the Emperor would be very hesitant to devolve power in those areas. Even in an expanding Empire, Trebizond, Iconium, Nikaea, Thessalonika and Epirus, would form the core of the Empire's power and the Emperor would be accutely aware of this. If we take a look at the historical precedent for Byzantine Viceroyalties, the Theme system, these actually became smaller and smaller in the core area of the Empire as it expanded eastward during the Makedonian dynasty.
I might create some titular Kingdom titles for the area when the Roman Empire has been reformed though. Both as sort of flavour and because if you manage to take enough of the west and the middle east even i won't deny that the Emperor would devolve power in the core areas in the Balkans and in Anatolia.
The late Roman Dioceses of Asiana and Pontus could be possible inspirations for Titular Kingdom titles that only the restored Roman Empire would be able to access.
And looking on the European side of the strait the late Roman Dioceses of Thrace and Macedonia could be possible inspirations for titular Kingdom titles.
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Titular viceroyalties are not a thing. Titular kingdoms in general for vassal management are a bad idea. Actually, titular anything is pretty much a bad idea.
You can grant multiple duke-level viceroyalties to a single ruler, yes. However, their opinion malus for all non-viceroyalty rulers in your realm stacks hard if you do. And if this is the suggested tactic, then I don't see why the Emperor doesn't have the power to simply grant a real viceroyalty.
FYI, Armenia/Hayk is also locked-down. Also, it's not necessarily a matter of devolving power to local rulers. Governorship of the viceroyalty can and should be granted to same-culture, probably dynastic rulers (as the AI does/would when it runs out of vassal limit). Title reverts on death, and the emperor still owns it.
Also, regarding 'Super Duchy Viceroyalties' mentioned in the last post, it occurs to me that somehow the emperor would have to create or usurp all those duchies before he could grant them as viceroyalties (unlike with kingdoms which only he can create if over the vassal limit).
Currently, the Byzantine Empire definitely cannot restore the Roman Empire anymore. I haven't confirmed this with the ERE, but I did play another Catholic empire (Italia) which ended-up owning approximately the same land. I wasn't quite able to hang on to it due to the vassal limit, even with all viceroyalties granted. If I'd been Byzantium, I would've run into a wall with half the territory.
I am currently experimenting with raising the vassal limit in EMF+SWMH due to its increased province count and its plethora of tiny de jure kingdoms. However, I like what running up against the vassal limit forces the player to do if they want to keep conquering. It's fun. Thus, any increases in the vassal limit will probably be predominantly for great dukes and not so much for emperors.
Thanks for letting me know Ziji. I had not actually tested whether you could create titular viceroyalties so i did not know that
I must have missed the line under the k_armenia when i looked through the landed_titles file before writing that response. Oops
But back on-topic. Unlocking them due to the Vassal limit being too low/punishing seems like a terrible round-about way to deal with the actual problem. Which is not that they are locked in the first place, but that the vassal limit needs to be raised in SWMH to compensate for the increased number of provinces. I will definetely make sure that we start a discussion internally in the SWMH team about this, no matter what you come up with for SWMH+EMF
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What you could also do is actually re-structure the dejure layout of the internal empire to allow for the original provinces to become dejure kingdoms once a certain size has been reached (conquering Sicilia, for example).
you mean have it work in a manner similar to the reconquista mechanics?
I'm currently playing an ERE game, got to about 1220, moving up the Balkans, into mid-Italy. Have retaken all of Asia Minor, the Levant and Egypt. For me, using kingdoms is indispensable now. I simply cannot be bothered to be spammed about minor Ducal vassals, even without viceroyalties (don't have CM) it's just much easier to give out kingdom titles to vassals and have them govern. For me, it's just a step closer to the old Empire.
That idea sort of intrigues me. That would allow me to offer de-jure Kingdom titles to anyone who manages to restore the Empire and have the 1204 de-jure title for when the Empire fails. I'll take a look at how Meneth did it when i get that far
Well, from what I can tell, you can actually change dejure structure in events- hell, you could even redraw the structure of duchies to make it so that the kingdom-level titles have the right borders.
That was what i was under the impression that Meneth had done in PB. Hence why i replied to the post about the Reconquista mechanics. When any of the northern Kingdoms take enough of their starting de-jure Kingdoms an event will fire that grants them more de-jure territory to the south. I just need to understand properly how the triggers work and so on before i try my hand at it. Or i could just ask Meneth to help me
That's good. For a moment it sounded like the roman empire was basically unplayable if I started regaining it's old territories.
