How about we all play someone in Iberia and attempt the Reconquista? 
Another possibility could be playing the Byzantine princes.
Another possibility could be playing the Byzantine princes.
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Byzantine Princes would be fine with me as well. Although, Like I already said, I also have interest in the Dukes scenario. I like the idea of being able to contribute to the beta, but modding is also very fun to me.
Well, biggest thing that bothers me in indep dukes is that it now feels shoddy, imperfect and lousy. I am rather perfectionist in scens.
How is it imperfect? With minor editing it can be fine. And the modified provinces file is not 100% necessary.
Anyway, if we play Byzantine Princes, we'll need to establish some rules on conquering infidels as well as on the Byzantine succession (since once you are Emperor, even with elective law it's quite easy to ensure that your son inherits).
Ugh, I think playing Byzantine Princes is really bad, it is far too easy to become Emperor, I think we should just play either regular Dukes or Kings.
Well, I think there's the way to have a small house rule, where you can only give your relatives those titles you had when elected as emperor.
Also, sure it can be easy to become emperor, but as a byzantine prince, you might be wanting to do something else than become emperor.
Also, sure it can be easy to become emperor, but as a byzantine prince, you might be wanting to do something else than become emperor.
Sterkarm said:
We could always do a little surgery, and give the Emperor semi-sallic inheritance rather than elective...
How about rules along these lines when a player is Emperor:
- succession must be elective
- you must give away all prince titles except Prince of Thrake; if necessary, count vassals must be appointed first so they can be made princes
- you cannot give a prince title to anyone who already has one
- you must give all counties to appropriate princes; e.g. if you hold Thessalonika and there is a Prince of Thessalonika, you must give the province to him. If a prince title is not yet created or is not an Imperial vassal, then you may keep the provinces (but only as part of the Imperial demesne, not to be given away). You must also keep Byzantion and Thrake as part of Imperial demesne.
This would ensure that a player Emperor cannot make his sons too powerful by piling up titles and provinces on them, and is in general not too powerful himself (because of the need to give away titles and provinces).
For wars, I suggest something like this:
- player princes may not start a war against religious enemies, only the Emperor can; but princes can freely join any wars fought by the Emperor
- a player Emperor may only start up to two wars against religious enemies during his reign (AI Emperors obviously aren't limited like this)
- Catholic bashing however is freely allowed and any prince may start a war on his own
I also suggest that princes are allowed to arrange marriage only with people of Orthodox religion (Greek preferred but any culture is fine), not with Catholics, and certainly no marrying Muslims into your family.
- succession must be elective
- you must give away all prince titles except Prince of Thrake; if necessary, count vassals must be appointed first so they can be made princes
- you cannot give a prince title to anyone who already has one
- you must give all counties to appropriate princes; e.g. if you hold Thessalonika and there is a Prince of Thessalonika, you must give the province to him. If a prince title is not yet created or is not an Imperial vassal, then you may keep the provinces (but only as part of the Imperial demesne, not to be given away). You must also keep Byzantion and Thrake as part of Imperial demesne.
This would ensure that a player Emperor cannot make his sons too powerful by piling up titles and provinces on them, and is in general not too powerful himself (because of the need to give away titles and provinces).
For wars, I suggest something like this:
- player princes may not start a war against religious enemies, only the Emperor can; but princes can freely join any wars fought by the Emperor
- a player Emperor may only start up to two wars against religious enemies during his reign (AI Emperors obviously aren't limited like this)
- Catholic bashing however is freely allowed and any prince may start a war on his own
I also suggest that princes are allowed to arrange marriage only with people of Orthodox religion (Greek preferred but any culture is fine), not with Catholics, and certainly no marrying Muslims into your family.
That's fine.
I don't really agree with this one, unless all Princes are allowed to have only one Prince title. The Emperor should necessarily be morre powerful than his vassals, and if his vassals have more territory than he does that makes him vulnerable to toppling.
This is fine.
I agree with the giving away counties that belong to Prince titles, but only if the Emperor is not forced to give away titles.
That seems a reasonable religious restriction.
As does this one.
Of course.
I'd be opposed to this one, actually. I think players should be free to marry whomever they wish. Of course, players should be encouraged to respond through role play of a character marrys out of the faith.
Patrucio said:
How about limiting the Emperor to a maximum of, say, five prince titles, with any exceeding that number to be given away?
And the next rule I proposed does say that you cannot give a title to a prince who already has one (mainly to prevent a player Emperor from stacking the deck in his son's favor).
Perhaps a piety or a badboy penalty (edited between sessions) if you marry your dynasty to a muslim or pagan (Catholics are ok)?
Should we start a new thread, where we can post rules agreed on as well as current players?
I think the only rules we need as far as the Emperor's land goes are:
1) Imperial succession must be elective.
2) The Emperor may not bestow Princely titles to anyone who already has one, and may not in any event give Byzantium away.
3) The Emperor may give away counties only if he also gives away the Princely title they owe their fealty to, and if he gives away a Princely title he must give away all counties under his control that owe their fealty to that Title.
That way, the Emperor can get as big as he wants to, will prevent the Emperor from keeping the choice provinces and giving the dregs away, and will ensure that the Emperor doesn't stack titles on a favored son. I think that with these rules, most PCs who become Emperor will try to give away most of the land they control before they die to their relatives, if only to prevent another dynasty from getting to dole out all the land to their relatives later.
I think a piety penalty might be appropriate.
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I think somebody else should start the thread, because from january on I might not be able to play.