kingdom of jerusalem

[unmerged(60478)]

I wonder, why there is no flag for kingdom of jerusalem in eu3 which could be brought back in life as a result of a revolt?

also, since eu3 is going to be more dynasticly oriented and flag of provance is very similar to jerusalem's flag, does it really mean that a duke of provence will have his claim on jerusalem by means of having a permanent casus belli on any jerusalem's owner ?

 

[Emre Yigit]

Shouldn't Cyprus rather than Provence have a core on Jerusalem?

 

[unmerged(37697)]

I wonder, why there is no flag for kingdom of jerusalem in eu3 which could be brought back in life as a result of a revolt?

Dunno. There's a few EUII-era (saying that, Jerusalem is well before EUII's timeframe) nations missing in EUIII, but there are also a lot more minor nations, such as Northumberland

I'd be surprised if JER wasn't in, and even if it isn't (to use a clichéd argument), it'd be very easy to mod back in - the same with BYZ, and so on.

...also, since eu3 is going to be more dynasticly oriented and flag of provance is very similar to jerusalem's flag, does it really mean that a duke of provence will have his claim on jerusalem by means of having a permanent casus belli on any jerusalem's owner ?

Highly unlikely. Provence had a claim on Jerusalem, but then again so did Spain and I suspect a lot of other nations. The current King of Spain is also King of Jerusalem, actually. Nor will England have a permanent CB and cores on France simply because until the Treaty of Paris we kept that claim.

 

[Jolt]

Should the Papal States have claims all over the Western Roman Empire just because they forged Constantine's Testimony?

 

[Registered]

Should the Papal States have claims all over the Western Roman Empire just because they forged Constantine's Testimony?

The emperor (the Holy Roman one) might have a thing or two to say about that. Not to mention any other temporal ruler.

 

[EvilSanta]

The emperor (the Holy Roman one) might have a thing or two to say about that. Not to mention any other temporal ruler.

I think Registered has his sarcasmmeter broken.

Or Jolt actually meant it and I am making total fool out of myself.

 

[Registered]

I think Registered has his sarcasmmeter broken.

myes, i should, perhaps, have added a smiley to my post.

 

[unmerged(60152)]

Shouldn't Cyprus rather than Provence have a core on Jerusalem?

I got this abstract from http://www.heraldica.org/topics/national/jerusale.htm

The kingdom of Jerusalem was founded as a consequence of the 1st crusade of 1099. Godefroi de Bouillon died in 1100 and was succeeded by his brother Baudoin I (+ 1118) and a great-nephew Baudoin II (+ 1131), who left an eldest daughter Mélissende. She passed the throne to her husband Foulques d'Anjou (+ 1147), and to her sons Baudoin III (+ 1163) and Amaury or Amalric (+ 1173). Amaury had a son and successor Baudoin IV (d. 1185), and two daughters, Sybille and Isabeau (1169-1206).

The arms of Jerusalem pop up in a number of places. The reason for this is the rather tortuous history of the throne and title. The short version is this: three lines stemmed from Queen Isabeau (d. 1206), the eldest of which ruled in absentia until 1268, at which time the two other lines entered in dispute over the succession. From this dispute stems the claims of (1) the kings of Cyprus and (2) the kings of Sicily. The claim to Cyprus (1) became object of dispute in 1474 as the result of an usurpation: the claims of the usurper (1a) passed to Venice, while those of the displaced ruler (1b) passed to Savoy. As for the claims of the kings of Sicily (2), it became part of the kingdom of Aragon. Then the claims passed along with Sicily itself to the kings of Spain (1506-1700). As a result of the war of Spanish Succession (1701-13), Naples and Sicily were ceded by Spain to the Habsburg emperor Charles VI in 1720, and the pope duly invested the emperor with the titles of king of Sicily and Jerusalem on June 5, 1722 (the kingdom being a papal fief). In the course of the war of Polish Succession (1733-38), the younger son of the king of Spain, Don Carlos, managed to conquer the Two Sicilies, a conquest recognized by the peace of Vienna of 1738, and by the pope in the same year. Carlos became king of Spain in 1759 and left Naples and Sicily to his younger son Ferdinand, whose descendants reigned until 1860. The kings of Spain continued to use the title of Jerusalem until 1931

According to the history, the only ones countries that should have a core in Jerusalem are Aragon and Spain, (temporaly Austia, maybe Savoy too...)

 

[niceta]

Should the Papal States have claims all over the Western Roman Empire just because they forged Constantine's Testimony?

Absolutely not. the only territories Costantino gave to the Pope were Umbria and Marche (and it was an historiacal false - DONAZIONE DI COSTANTINO).

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

I got this abstract from http://www.heraldica.org/topics/national/jerusale.htm



According to the history, the only ones countries that should have a core in Jerusalem are Aragon and Spain, (temporaly Austia, maybe Savoy too...)

Provence bases its right on Charles d'Anjou, count of Anjou, Provence, king of Sicily, Albania and Jerusalem and some other places

EDIT

Absolutely not. the only territories Costantino gave to the Pope were Umbria and Marche (and it was an historiacal false - DONAZIONE DI COSTANTINO).

No, that was the gift of Pippin 'the Short' the father of Charlemagne, he gave Umbria and Marche to the Pope

The Donation of Constanine, can found here

 

[Thanat0S]

I think that in the end there will be the JER flag in EUIII, because, if I can esport my CK games in EU3 it's very probably that the kingdom of Jerusalem could be in my savegame!

With the "Costantini Donatione" the Pope would have claim in the all the West Roman Empire. It's a way the Pope used to made recognized his dominions in Italy!

 

[Jolt]

Absolutely not. the only territories Costantino gave to the Pope were Umbria and Marche (and it was an historiacal false - DONAZIONE DI COSTANTINO).

I was going to say that it wasn't proved until a little while into the game (Like in EU2) But then I'd be wrong. (It was proven false in 1440 and the game starts in 1452.)
EDIT: And my actual post was ironic.

 

[Okawoa]

to be honest, Jerusalsm was an political fantasy at the time... unless we see a jewish religion in the Levant, I doubt that it will be anything other then palastinian and Lebonese.

 

[unmerged(44706)]

Don't forget about polish claims on Kingdom of Jerusalem:
Bona Sforza inherited the title from her great-grandmothers:
Isabella di Chiaramonte (Isabella of Taranto)
Anne de Lusignan, Princess of Cyprus.
Sigmunt August inherited the title of King of Jerusalem from his mother Bona Sforza.
Sigmunt III Vasa inherited the title of King of Jerusalem from his grandmother Bona Sforza, by his mother Catherine Jagiellon.
Wladislaus IV Vasa & John II Casimir inherited the title King of Jerusalem from their father Sigmunt III Vasa.

 

[joriandrake]

Shouldn't Cyprus rather than Provence have a core on Jerusalem?

Both, and could have nearly all cristians.

 

[diskoerekto]

instead of the "core" system that is being used, a better system can be implemented. All christian countries should get a CB as if they had a core for any non-christian country owning jerusalem, konstantiniyye, roma, wien or any 3 provinces in the iberian peninsula. other boni of having a core like manpower or annual tax can be left out because they are irrelevant of the position of those provinces.

instead of an automatic CB, there may be an event for the pope to start a holy war and giving every christian country CB's to non-christian owners of those provinces that may be triggered after some conditions are met.

With the same method, every religion can have "sacred" provinces. like mecca and medinah for sunni muslims, plus the provinces which has the shrine of the twelve imams for shiites etc etc.

all should be moddable of course

 

[niceta]

For the holy provincies i agree, Ardabil for shiite, Mekkah fo sunni, Konstantinopolis for Orthodox, Rome for catholic, wittemberg for Protestants, one of the states of inner india for indu usw.
the core should exists just if a country of an another religion conquest the "Holy Land" of an another one. Not a general CB against an infidel country. After the 30 years war the powers have anothe better thing instaed of fight a "Holy war". And before this date the idea of crusade was not so cool.

 

[Registered]

For the holy provincies i agree, Ardabil for shiite, Mekkah fo sunni, Konstantinopolis for Orthodox, Rome for catholic, wittemberg for Protestants, one of the states of inner india for indu usw.
the core should exists just if a country of an another religion conquest the "Holy Land" of an another one. Not a general CB against an infidel country. After the 30 years war the powers have anothe better thing instaed of fight a "Holy war". And before this date the idea of crusade was not so cool.

Wittenberg is in no way a kind of Protestant Holy Land. In any case the crusading ideal (at least the idea of 'liberating' Jerusalem) was pretty much dead by this time. So even the CB against the infidel in Jerusalem is a bit much. A christian country holding Mekka/Medina would be a recent event and definitely should rile up the Muslim countries against that country

 

[Brian Bóruma]

The current King of Spain is also King of Jerusalem, actually. Nor will England have a permanent CB and cores on France simply because until the Treaty of Paris we kept that claim.

Not exactly. The current (modern) King of Spain and the King of Two Sicilies both claim Jerusalem based on Provence's Neapolitan claim.

 

[unmerged(60670)]

For the holy provincies i agree, Ardabil for shiite, Mekkah fo sunni, Konstantinopolis for Orthodox, Rome for catholic, wittemberg for Protestants, one of the states of inner india for indu usw.
the core should exists just if a country of an another religion conquest the "Holy Land" of an another one. Not a general CB against an infidel country. After the 30 years war the powers have anothe better thing instaed of fight a "Holy war". And before this date the idea of crusade was not so cool.

For the times when European countries had issues about the Jerusalem look in CK. Orthodoxs never considered Konstantinopolis as the holy province. wittemberg - same. these religions have no "holy province".