Kingdom level restrictions on rally points

[spooq]

Armies should only raise in the kingdom that is supplying those specific troops. It would make empire level play more strategic with having to have strong allies specifically near potential trouble spots that are far from your demense. Give MAAs a real location. Knights are wherever that character is at. Maybe allow or even force some specific MAA to be stationed in our own or vassal kingdoms that meet certain criteria. This would let the player keep their camels in Cairo for use in the desert, for example, at the cost of being spread out. Any regional MAA could be locked like this. It doesn’t make sense to easily reinforce regional MAA when they are constantly campaigning outside their region.

 

[Carlo Curiosus]

If by "kingdom that is supplying those specific troops" you mean that vassal, then what would likely happen is the same as in CK2 - you give each of your kings a single county out on the mongol frontier (or whichever trouble spot) so you can raise all their troops right where you need them (so kind of pointless).

 

[MatthewP]

It’s a good idea but would require a larger rework. Empires would be too drastically weakened by these changes without the ability to get useful troops from vassals and not being able to reliably use their own men at arms/knights.

I think if they’d designed the game around vassal troops mattering and using only local forces it could have been really cool. Maybe it’s not too late, but I have my doubts.

 

[DukeLeto42]

As Carlo Curiosus points out, this would be a return to the disastrous mess that is the CK2 levy spawning mechanics. What's also worth mentioning there is the tedium associated with finding all the various levy spawns and maneuvering them (prior to CK3's introduction of vassal limits and the consolidation of factions, it was also a cause of horrifying lag - one of my runs ended not because a revolt threatened me, but because 100+ duchies all raised their troops at once and the game came to a stop).

With that said, stationed locations for MAA isn't a bad idea. It could be done on a region basis, so it doesn't need a specific county, but would mean you would need to consider where you need them readily at hand.

 

[spooq]

Contiguous region kingdom-level limits then. Kings with a single isolated county can only have proportional levies actually raised there. Should make islands like Corsica more interesting that way too.

I specified kingdom level because I, too, don’t want to deal with duchy level. Regional is also an improvement over the current global.

 

[spooq]

It’s a good idea but would require a larger rework. Empires would be too drastically weakened by these changes without the ability to get useful troops from vassals and not being able to reliably use their own men at arms/knights.

I think if they’d designed the game around vassal troops mattering and using only local forces it could have been really cool. Maybe it’s not too late, but I have my doubts.

AI or player empires? I have 130k+ army in my current empire, last time I checked. Praying for the Mongols to come and put me out of my misery.

What spurred this thread was being Paris-based and having a strong Greek vassal, and thinking “hmm I should counter-balance him by strengthening someone loyal to me in that region and have some external ally in case of revolt”, followed immediately by thinking “it doesn’t matter I’ll just take a Ryanair flight there“. That’s the opposite of interesting imperial gameplay. Tyranny of distance and all that.

 

[MatthewP]

AI or player empires? I have 130k+ army in my current empire, last time I checked. Praying for the Mongols to come and put me out of my misery.

Do you fight wars with only levies? If so you must have infinite patience for the sieges. But yes, AI empires are obviously a concern.

I’m also wondering, what is the desired gameplay change? Like, I have a large rebellion. Is the expectation that I will fight it with lots of divided forces, often lacking men at arms and maybe with 1 knight, rather than trying to concentrate them?

edit: 2 - I am planning a conquest war against an inferior force. Is the expectation I will try to fight it with only local levies rather than bringing in my siege MAA (and others too since why not)?

 

[spooq]

Do you fight wars with only levies? If so you must have infinite patience for the sieges. But yes, AI empires are obviously a concern.

I’m also wondering, what is the desired gameplay change? Like, I have a large rebellion. Is the expectation that I will fight it with lots of divided forces, often lacking men at arms and maybe with 1 knight, rather than trying to concentrate them?

Nope I use the latest high tech trebuchet technology.

Desired gameplay change is to care about distance causing problems in empires which didn’t have the technology to deal with it. At a minimum on the warfare level. Would be great to have equivalent issues with stewardship, I’d love to hear suggestions on that too.

 

[spooq]

I am planning a conquest war against an inferior force. Is the expectation I will try to fight it with only local levies rather than bringing in my siege MAA (and others too since why not)?

Station your siege gear near the frontlines plus whatever other MAAs you feel you can get away with sparing, based on the domestic state of the rest of the empire, and bulk them up with local levies. Now you have committed something of value strategically, a meaningful decision has been taken. There are no meaningful decisions with Schrodingers Army, no local conditions.

 

[helveticadomes]

If by "kingdom that is supplying those specific troops" you mean that vassal, then what would likely happen is the same as in CK2 - you give each of your kings a single county out on the mongol frontier (or whichever trouble spot) so you can raise all their troops right where you need them (so kind of pointless).

fully agree

but because 100+ duchies all raised their troops at once and the game came to a stop).

agree, rise not per vassal, or single duchy/barony but on recruit zones (somewhere between empire and kingdom size, i suggest a size of 18-38 countries)
attach vassals to the recruit zones on a % base if they are at multiple zones (when size can not be calculated per barony, combining to recruit zones)


it would be interesting when it will be combined with Home Front opinion malus from CKII
(a stacking opinion penalty, -1 for every 61 days a vassal give you his army)

but to make this meaningful would also require an overhaul of the levies
because levies now are just useless (or only a number that keep AI away from attack you)

as well as the alliances
alliances should not be automatic, should be limited, and possible internal/external
(form NAPs default, and make useful way to extend a NAP into an ally. with events, schemes, council task)