Kingdom for Burgundy?

[Stratagyfan101]

I agree but just not with the name. I would pretty much just give burgundy a decision to be crowned a Kingdom with some fancy bonuses for Burgundy. A complete tag switch is not necessary. The decision would disable to ability to form France or Netherlands and grant burgundy some other bonus, like prestige, legitimacy and chance of an heir.

 

[TheStijninator]

Maybe a new flag? Gotta love your flags

 

[Caedakar]

Why would there need to be a separate Lotharingia? It already exists - it's called Lorraine in French. I usually play the game in German, and "Lorraine" is called "Lothringen" in German. Does it sound more familiar?... Conquering Lorraine and TAG switching to Lorraine as Burgundy.. hmm. I honestly don't see the point.

Play Lorraine. It exists in default 1444 campaign, under personal union with Provence. It is also an HRE member state although Provence isn't. Break that PU with Provence and move your way up, reconquer Burgundy. It'd be more rewarding since it'd be much harder than just clicking a button when you have most of it anyways.

After all, why is it so weird if Burgundy lived on, but not if some titular long-forgotten kingdom with little national identity or culture to speak of gets recreated again?

The Duchy of Lorraine that is currently present in the game is not the Kingdom of Lotharingia. As they are different titles, both nations would be able to exist at the same time. The point being that Charles the Bold actively sought the title of King.

The reason it would be strange is because if Charles the Bold lived, the Duchy of Burgundy would have no longer existed, but a Kingdom of either Burgundy or Lotharingia would have taken its place. Nationalism has not existed during the duration of the game, national identity and culture have nearly zero impact on a tag. It is but a feudal title, for a feudal realm to obtain.

 

[bizarcasm]

Not necessarily. The catholic Church and feudal system were still strong enough until the Reformation that you couldn't just SAY that you were a king. You would need to be recognized by either the Pope or the Holy Roman Emperor in order to take the title. This is the reason, for instance, that Lithuania never became a kingdom. In spite of vast holdings, nobody recognized it as such, and once their rulers converted to Christianity, they could no longer claim to be kings on their own. Same with Brittany. If Charles the Bold had lived, but wasn't recognized by either the Pope or the Emperor, then he would still be a Duke, regardless of his ambitions.

 

[Caedakar]

Not necessarily. The catholic Church and feudal system were still strong enough until the Reformation that you couldn't just SAY that you were a king. You would need to be recognized by either the Pope or the Holy Roman Emperor in order to take the title. This is the reason, for instance, that Lithuania never became a kingdom. In spite of vast holdings, nobody recognized it as such, and once their rulers converted to Christianity, they could no longer claim to be kings on their own. Same with Brittany. If Charles the Bold had lived, but wasn't recognized by either the Pope or the Emperor, then he would still be a Duke, regardless of his ambitions.

But he did persuade the Emperor to crown him at Trier, although the ceremony never took place because of Charles' attitude. If he hadn't fallen during the Battle of Nancy, with a silver tongue he very well could have convinced the Emperor to crown him King.

 

[bizarcasm]

I'm not saying he couldn't, I'm just saying it's also possible he also could have just remained a de facto independent duke. There wouldn't be anything particularly strange about that.

 

[Caedakar]

I'm not saying he couldn't, I'm just saying it's also possible he also could have just remained a de facto independent duke. There wouldn't be anything particularly strange about that.

I made an error when I said it was strange, what I stated had more to do with alternate history than with the game itself. As in real life I believe Charles would have done anything in his power to persuade the Emperor to crown him had he not fallen in battle. Although I do enjoy the notion of being able to form the Kingdom of Lotharingia or Burgundy in game, I would not like to see it form in every game. It should mainly be for the players, or an extremely lucky A.I.

 

[king cruel]

I am looking for a multi-player thread, to play multi-player with. Am I in the right place??

 

[Caedakar]

I am looking for a multi-player thread, to play multi-player with. Am I in the right place??

What you want to do is register Europa Universalis IV on the forums and follow this link:

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?814-EUIV-Multiplayer

 

[TheStijninator]

Not really...

 

[Rey]

I am looking for a multi-player thread, to play multi-player with. Am I in the right place??

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?814-EUIV-Multiplayer

 

[Caban]

A formable Lotharingia is a feature in several mods... Extended Vanilla, Formable Nations Galore and M&T come to mind.

Seems like it would be really easy to write too.

 

[Dakilla TM]

Why would there need to be a separate Lotharingia? It already exists - it's called Lorraine in French. I usually play the game in German, and "Lorraine" is called "Lothringen" in German. Does it sound more familiar?... Conquering Lorraine and TAG switching to Lorraine as Burgundy.. hmm. I honestly don't see the point.

Play Lorraine. It exists in default 1444 campaign, under personal union with Provence. It is also an HRE member state although Provence isn't. Break that PU with Provence and move your way up, reconquer Burgundy. It'd be more rewarding since it'd be much harder than just clicking a button when you have most of it anyways.

After all, why is it so weird if Burgundy lived on, but not if some titular long-forgotten kingdom with little national identity or culture to speak of gets recreated again?

That's very interesting, I did not know that. :0

I think a better idea is for all Rhinelander culture nations to be able to form The Confederation (of the Rhine). I mean, you can form Napoleonic Italy in this game, so why not the Confederation? It'll make Aachen and Alsace much more rewarding!

 

[WeissRaben]

I will remember that kingdoms lost for centuries and then recreated (or just created ex nihilo) have not been unseen in our history. If it hadn't happened, would you have balked at the idea of Savoy getting the title of king of Sardinia as well?

 

[Incompetent]

EU4 doesn't really keep track of feudal titles anyway - every independent Christian monarchy is referred to as a 'kingdom'.