King Offa, the Heirslayer

[GaiusC]

I know traits and stats aren't exactly hereditary, but usually, I'd expect a bit of parents' stats to spill over their offspring.

Well, looks like it's definitely not the way it works.

My good king Offa, 11 Intrigue (possibly 12 when he got the kid actually) and his nice wife, 20 Intrigue, just got their heir to turn adult. Once his education was achieved and he got his special trait, this great hope for universal monarchy had an Intrigue rating of 0. Yes, 0. And it's clearly not because he's a closet bastard and his true father was a moron, because the highest stats are his mother's (I always pick wives with very high stats when picking a bride for my king and my heir apparent).

I don't even want to know what my kingdom will look like when he's king - I usually have 7 to 10 provinces in royal demesne, and this one will probably barely even be able to manage the royal capital province...

I guess it's time to hire some assassins. :wacko:

 

[unmerged(215997)]

I guess it's time to hire some assassins. :wacko:

My thoughts exactly. I remember in my last game I had king titles of Denmark, Sweden and Norway (started as 2nd in line to throne in Sweden, many 'accidents' happened then, you know the drill ). Went on a crusade, took Egypt in 2 goes (so that's 4th king title). But as I was nearing my conquest of Egypt my super king (had wonderfull stats, really great) was leading a battle with like 10 more troop advantage over the enemy and of course got himself a severe wound

As his son was very young, I prayed for my king to get well. Sadly no healers managed to get him on his feet, and he soon passed away. As his heir was still young at that time, I didn't know what would become of him. His parents had great stats, so I was hoping for a good leader. Sadly he turned out to be a real moron, had to give away many titles, basicly my best laid plans went to hell.

And I've read quite a few stories like that here
CK teaches you, that no matter what you plan, the outcome can be very ... different from what you were aiming at. Just my 2 cents.

P.S.
If you know that your heir will suck, for the love of God get rid of him ASAP ! I can even do it for you

 

[sjones25]

You don't necessarily have to kill him (though sometimes that is the easiest option). You could change your laws to one of the laws that say the strongest heir inherits everything (I don't remember what its called). Then make your least-incompetent son into a powerful Duke. When your old king dies, that guy will inherit, rather than your oldest son.

PS. In your case, you don't even have to worry about your idiot son getting upset about having the kingdom ripped away from him, since he's too incompetent to do anything about it!

 

[TempestDK]

Well stats were hereditary in CK before the expansion. But that just lead to breeding programs to get super rulers.

I think it is fine that it is not hereditary in DV. Makes sense. Just because your parents were brilliant, doesn't mean you will be.

So yeah you will sometimes get a moron on the throne, but isn't that just part of the fun?? ... to see your life's work go down the crapper, then once the moron is dead, then spend years trying to rebuild what you lost.

If you want to control which child inherits, then go for the inheritance law that lets the strongest inherit, and then just make sure the chosen one has more titles that his brothers.

 

[unmerged(215997)]

I think it is fine that it is not hereditary in DV. Makes sense. Just because your parents were brilliant, doesn't mean you will be.

Still, if your parents were brilliant, there is a good chance that you will also be smart (in real life that is)

So yeah you will sometimes get a moron on the throne, but isn't that just part of the fun?? ... to see your life's work go down the crapper...

Exactly
No other game like CK.

 

[unmerged(78308)]

GaiusC, hear hear! Same story in my game. Super King, everything is great. Super wife with very good stats. 2 sons born with excellent stats and 1 idiot son. The great sons die from sickness around 20 years of age, but the idiot survives while even managing to make his stats even worse through traits gained My backup line of heirs were also near perfect at the beginning, but as soon as I let them loose in their own counties..Kaazinngg! Kinslayer, Heretic, Excommunicated, Severely wounded + other wonderful gains. You really can't turn away from them one second without having their stats destroyed. (King to himself: "Fools, I'm surrounded by fools")

I have to say that I also think that great parents should somehow shine through on the kids. At least it usually works the other way round. Don't forget the old tv serie "Hammer" where he always said: "Scum gets scum".

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Yes and such brilliant parents as Robert Guiscard and Sichelgaita brought forth a brilliant child named Roger Borsa. Or Henry II and Eleanor whose son John Lackland was an exceptional ruler.

If in the game brilliant parents get brilliant sons (who then get brilliant sons themselves) then you can just as well stop playing since the game then is just to easy.

If you have really good advisors then the chances that your children get better education results are also higher, so things like you want are already in the game (sort of).

 

[unmerged(78308)]

Aha wasn't aware of that. Luckily I always try to pick the best advisers.

I know that it's not always good gets good and vice versa And yes it could quickly become too easy to make "breeding programs". Still I feel hard hit in my current game.

 

[Arko]

If you have really good advisors then the chances that your children get better education results are also higher, so things like you want are already in the game (sort of).

So, if your wife is one of the advisors then her talents may passes in a way to your child (only if the child received his education in your court of course)

 

[GaiusC]

If you have really good advisors then the chances that your children get better education results are also higher, so things like you want are already in the game (sort of).

Oh, but it's been more than a century since I had any advisor with main stat below 12, and this is my best king so far, in 250 years - 52 for his 4 stats.

Of course, these stats shouldn't be totally hereditary, but still, there should be some limits to how low the heir can sink.
What really got me here was that his Intrigue was 0. Not 2, not even 1, 0 I didn't even know it was possible to get 0, I've never seen it before and assumed the worst was 1.

Thankfully, I knew I should go for the "Strongest gets the crown" hereditary rule (aka Salic Consanguinity, Salic to have best odds to keep everything in my dynasty). Idiot son got 1 county, so-so son got 2 counties and a Duke title.

 

[unmerged(133776)]

What really bites, is Brilliant ruler gets great son. Have great advisers and schools in Ruling province to improve great son even more. Great son turns into Brilliant son with Prodigy trait. Give Brilliant son his own Duke title. As ruler gets older, start piling on the Duke Titles. Brilliant son goes and kills himself, leaving all of HIS titles to his son who is gradually turning into an idiot, before my Ruler can die. (I had no say in picking HIS advisers and schooling). Now there's an idiot grandson next in line for the throne holding a major portion of my kingdom. I don't dare change laws as It'll be really hard to get those titles back, so I'm stuck with him (and his even more idiot brother). Can't kill him off as HIS heirs aren't even family.
LOL

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Oh, but it's been more than a century since I had any advisor with main stat below 12, and this is my best king so far, in 250 years - 52 for his 4 stats.

Of course, these stats shouldn't be totally hereditary, but still, there should be some limits to how low the heir can sink.
What really got me here was that his Intrigue was 0. Not 2, not even 1, 0 I didn't even know it was possible to get 0, I've never seen it before and assumed the worst was 1.

Thankfully, I knew I should go for the "Strongest gets the crown" hereditary rule (aka Salic Consanguinity, Salic to have best odds to keep everything in my dynasty). Idiot son got 1 county, so-so son got 2 counties and a Duke title.

What is important is, is that an advisor (doesn't matter which one) has a diplomacy-rating of at least 7.

IMHO it should be possible to get an idiotic heir, even with brilliant parents.

Also is the 0 intrigue, before or after the effects of the traits ?

 

[WhiteHojo]

Keep visualizing the scene in Monty Python's Holy Grail of the son who keeps wanting to have a musical cut-scene and his dad being very very disappointed in him.

not sure why but it popped in when i read the 1st post.

btw, just got back into CK/DV about 3 weeks ago and have been addicted to it since. Forgot how much dang fun it is

EDIT: this may be a good spot to ask this question - for the inheritance law that splits your empire between the male heirs, how is it decided which get what?

 

[Elusivehonor]

Yes and such brilliant parents as Robert Guiscard and Sichelgaita brought forth a brilliant child named Roger Borsa.

Forgive me Veldmaarschalk, but I believe you're forgetting about his son Bohemond? Or his daughter Emma who spawned Tancred? (Though of course these two children were a product of Guiscard's first marriage)

But you're right. Genetics are fairly random, and honestly CKDV does a really good job at changing things up.

Most of the time my heirs are pretty average, but there's always a chance you'll get that...undesirable.

Like many others have said, its all part of the fun. Of course, thats usually when I reload as a powerful count/duke of the same dynasty and start a huge civil war. But thats part of the fun too!

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Forgive me Veldmaarschalk, but I believe you're forgetting about his son Bohemond? Or his daughter Emma who spawned Tancred? (Though of course these two children were a product of Guiscard's first marriage)
!

I haven't but Roger Borsa was his heir that is why I named him.

But how brilliant were the children of Bohemond or Tancred ?

 

[nyah]

If you want to control which child inherits, then go for the inheritance law that lets the strongest inherit, and then just make sure the chosen one has more titles that his brothers.

I've been playing with that law in my current game but I've been caught out with it a few times. I choose my strongest child, give him a load of provinces and duchys (at times of high BB), thinking they're safe and I'll get them back when my king dies, only for the heir to die first, pass his possesions onto his son, and leave me with my idiot son as first in line and tons of duchys in the hands of an ungrateful grandchild, who proceeds to rebel against me time and time again.

 

[TempestDK]

I've been playing with that law in my current game but I've been caught out with it a few times. I choose my strongest child, give him a load of provinces and duchys (at times of high BB), thinking they're safe and I'll get them back when my king dies, only for the heir to die first, pass his possesions onto his son, and leave me with my idiot son as first in line and tons of duchys in the hands of an ungrateful grandchild, who proceeds to rebel against me time and time again.

Well that can happen with most laws ... just plain bad luck.

 

[Arko]

I've been playing with that law in my current game but I've been caught out with it a few times. I choose my strongest child, give him a load of provinces and duchys (at times of high BB), thinking they're safe and I'll get them back when my king dies, only for the heir to die first, pass his possesions onto his son, and leave me with my idiot son as first in line and tons of duchys in the hands of an ungrateful grandchild, who proceeds to rebel against me time and time again.

that makes the so excellent and special flavour of CK : everything can happen and overall, things player didn't expect ; just like in real medieval life

 

[Baldamundo]

Yes and such brilliant parents as Robert Guiscard and Sichelgaita brought forth a brilliant child named Roger Borsa.

And he's so darn ugly as well. I picked the Duchy of Apulia thinking it was going to be great with this cunning, dashingly handsome, rogueishly charming skilled and brutal ruler, and then his son just turns out to be a fat, ugly, stumbling incompetent prat. And you can do so little to change it seeing as he's already been born by the start of the game ;____;

Why can't all the De Hauteville's be as stylish and talented as my beloved Robert 'The Weasel' De Hauteville

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

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