Hi, I am playing as a King of Jerusalem, and the Knights of St John have just been founded. What are the advantages of giving them baronies in my Kingdom.
King of Jerusalem and Holy Orders.
- Thread starter NI_Mcknight
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
It's pretty complicated. Actually to be able to vassalize them (which enables you to raise them for free) you need to grant them a whole Duchy, preferably with population of your culture. Then one of the next Headmasters will be of your culture, and as a de jure vassal of yours accept your offer of vassalisation (a gift might be needed as well).
Othre then that it does not bring much more bonus then the piety granted from the Pope and the relation buff with the current headmaster. As soon as holy Orders own land they will participate in crusades and such though.
If you play with the 1187 start as King of Jerusalem, both Knights Templar and Knights Hospitaller are already your vassals. Granting them any more land will not give you as much advantages as keeping it for yourself.
Othre then that it does not bring much more bonus then the piety granted from the Pope and the relation buff with the current headmaster. As soon as holy Orders own land they will participate in crusades and such though.
If you play with the 1187 start as King of Jerusalem, both Knights Templar and Knights Hospitaller are already your vassals. Granting them any more land will not give you as much advantages as keeping it for yourself.
Well I actually won Jerusalem through a Crusade as the De Normandie familly(so my allies are miles away), I am looking for as much help as possible against the Turks and Egyptions...
I am also the Grandson of the Byzantine Emperor, which annoyingly doesn't count as an alliance. >:|
I am also the Grandson of the Byzantine Emperor, which annoyingly doesn't count as an alliance. >:|
Last edited:
Granting the holy orders land through the events is always beneficial. They add an entirely new holding slot to the game, so they take nothing away from you, and the events grant prestige and piety. If you want, you can declare war on them to take the baronies for yourself.
To make the holy orders your vassal, you can try the trick mentioned above, with offering vassalization. However, it's much easier to do it the following way:
1) Make sure the Grandmaster of the order is landed. A single barony will do.
2) Even though the holy orders have an elective succession, it is now possible to see who the next in line to the "throne" is.
3A) Go over to the Grandmaster's heir's character page. He should have a strong claim on the holy order title.
3B) In case he does not have a strong claim on the holy order title, arrange for the current Grandmaster to be killed. The heir will succeed, and his heir is guaranteed to have a strong claim. (Because he was second in line when the old Grandmaster died.)
4) Invite the heir with a strong claim to your court and grant him land, making him your vassal.
5) Now, declare war on the Grandmaster to press your new vassal's claim.
6) Upon your victory, you now have the holy order as your vassal! Because the claimant was already your vassal, he remains so upon getting the holy order title. Any following Grandmasters will also be your vassal.
7) If you want, kill the deposed Grandmaster. The current Grandmaster should be his heir, so you get any baronies back this way.
8) Optionally, revoke all of the lands from your vassal Grandmaster so he becomes unlanded; he'll still be your vassal. Note that you can not revoke the holy order title itself, or banish the Grandmaster.
To make the holy orders your vassal, you can try the trick mentioned above, with offering vassalization. However, it's much easier to do it the following way:
1) Make sure the Grandmaster of the order is landed. A single barony will do.
2) Even though the holy orders have an elective succession, it is now possible to see who the next in line to the "throne" is.
3A) Go over to the Grandmaster's heir's character page. He should have a strong claim on the holy order title.
3B) In case he does not have a strong claim on the holy order title, arrange for the current Grandmaster to be killed. The heir will succeed, and his heir is guaranteed to have a strong claim. (Because he was second in line when the old Grandmaster died.)
4) Invite the heir with a strong claim to your court and grant him land, making him your vassal.
5) Now, declare war on the Grandmaster to press your new vassal's claim.
6) Upon your victory, you now have the holy order as your vassal! Because the claimant was already your vassal, he remains so upon getting the holy order title. Any following Grandmasters will also be your vassal.
7) If you want, kill the deposed Grandmaster. The current Grandmaster should be his heir, so you get any baronies back this way.
8) Optionally, revoke all of the lands from your vassal Grandmaster so he becomes unlanded; he'll still be your vassal. Note that you can not revoke the holy order title itself, or banish the Grandmaster.
also note that if you give them a duchy, they can (and often will) change to that as primary title, which in turn would make their succession Feudal, which in turn means that you can inherit the Holy Order qua being his liege, if he doesn't get any heirs
Yeah, it sucks that blood dies like grandchildren with grandparents don't count, or uncles and nephews.
Wow, thanks a lot for that! I didn't know.
Are you sure about this? I haven't tried it, but in my 1.08 game, landed_titles.txt has every holy order tagged with primary = yes, i.e. they can not be held as secondary titles.
Well, if you're Frankish (I think 2 of the Holy orders are always Frankish. The 3rd one is German), I think vassalising them is just about asking nicely.