King of Greece, benefits of swearing fealty to Byzantium

[Quixotic1099]

Bought the game during steam's sale and I am obsessed. My degree is in History, emphasis on the Crusades so this is a nice rabbit hole to descend into.

Started in 1066 as Duke of Apulia, went on crusade on greece, pope grants me King of Greece along with 7 provinces.

Byzantium declared war and took Lecce, and the truce is about to end. What is the benefit of swearing fealty? I would like to guard against them and expand to near east, and north africa, but I also want to maintain enough autonomy to run my kingdom.

Basically, what are the benefits of a King swearing fealty?

 

[Simmy93]

Benefits include not being backhanded so hard that Aristotle appears and dies all over again. The disadvantage is bowing to filthy Greek-Romano obsessed oddities.

Joking aside, swear fealty and your religion will sooner or later change to Orthodox depending on the mood of your overlord. You'll also be in possession of a lot of provinces he'll be keen to try and revoke. My advice is to expand into Africa or into Italy and attempt to gather allies.

As such a new player you'll forgive me for sounding patronizing however perhaps save before doing anything and copy the file; you might find the Byzantines are quite unforgiving.

 

[Gans]

You can't get declared by them and they will protect you from external enemies. As you will be a proper vassal, he will need a proper reason to revoke your stuff, however he will hate your face for not being orthodox. You can join and start factions inside the realm however and might be able to seize the throne for yourself.

 

[Quixotic1099]

Thanks, the only thing is I would rather co-exist with them. I did not even want the "King of Greece" title but lucky me I guess. I suppose if they declare war, they can only get one province at a time, with a ten year truce between, unless they du jure claim the throne of Greece. Right?

 

[Simmy93]

Thanks, the only thing is I would rather co-exist with them. I did not even want the "King of Greece" title but lucky me I guess. I suppose if they declare war, they can only get one province at a time, with a ten year truce between, unless they du jure claim the throne of Greece. Right?

Correct, no de jure Kingdom claims however be careful under some circumstances they can grab duchies. Just start now and really build up your infrastructure and pick a permanent capital. Or be ballsy and wait for the Byzantines to be in trouble then de jure claim Constantinople. Get that and you're set.

 

[Gans]

Correct, no de jure Kingdom claims however be careful under some circumstances they can grab duchies. Just start now and really build up your infrastructure and pick a permanent capital. Or be ballsy and wait for the Byzantines to be in trouble then de jure claim Constantinople. Get that and you're set.

The more I think about it, swearing fealty doesn't sound bad. Being catholic is not a revoke reason (neither infidel nor heretic), the Basileos can't start the revoke xxx plots since he is a King tier, he cannot be excommunicated and imprisoned. Meanwhile he can declare war to whomever external ruler he wants to, get even stronger and don't ever have to fear being declared back.

 

[Naughtius Maximus]

Also, threat mechanics do not apply to vassals. You can run around with 100% threat and nobody will form pacts against you.

Being a vassal has its perks, however small.

Congratulations on picking the Duke of Apulia first. That is one of the most dynamic starts in the game.

 

[Quixotic1099]

Also, threat mechanics do not apply to vassals. You can run around with 100% threat and nobody will form pacts against you.

Being a vassal has its perks, however small.

Congratulations on picking the Duke of Apulia first. That is one of the most dynamic starts in the game.

This is my 4th start from them, the possibilities are numerous. I suppose I will eventually get around to playing another province.

 

[FifthMonarchy]

As has been said, he will have his priests in your lands converting your provinces and vassals where he can. I often play Armenia and this is one thing that stops me swearing fealty, I'd rather die in the true faith than be bullied into submission by those fiendish Greeks. Also lots of irritating requests to educate heirs to make them said fiendish Greeks. Of course, your own vassals seem to give no shits whatever for either faith or culture so will often give in to such blandishments.

 

[Sirrobert1]

Personally I always like to swear fealty. As a king, you are big enough that the Emperor can't just slap you around as a vassal, and you can snoop up other Byzantium lands as a vassal. As an outsider, you'd have to fight the entire ERE if you wanted some of their land, but as a vassal, you only have to fight the vassal alone.
So swear fealty, and start eating the ERE from within, until you are the new emperor.

 

[FifthMonarchy]

Yeah, but as the man said, timeo Danaos et dona ferentes and all that.

 

[Thrake]

King of Greece is a tough spot; the ERE should actively try to take Greece lands (capital Constantinople is in Greece so the AI thinks it must own this). If you would be king of Anatolia, Armenia or wathever, swearing fealty would be the easy way. Here I think it's still safer as a vassal and play the marriage game to get alliances to back you in case the ERE tries to revoke some of your titles. He should be less obsessed by doing it than if you're independant though. You can also play the political game and make sure your liege can not revoke your title, or requires council aproval to do it (bonus points if you can keep hold on majority of council votes during peace time to make sure he can not revoke your title).

Long story short, as a vassal you are safer if you are not heretic/heathen (if you are, being in is more dangerous), you can get support from vassals (handy when there's multiple king vassals) you can expand from the inside to become stronger than your liege or manipulate its laws with conclave.

 

[killerbee256]

The op maybe be able to take over the byzantine empire from the inside, if he can start a faction to force elective secession.

 

[sigeena]

Side-story, I played a Germanic who culture switched to Norman, then continued Prepared Invasion for Sicily against the Byzantine.

After taking over Sicily, I continued to raid and take Byzantine princesses for concubines. Then there was a Crusade for my Kingdom, and I decided to switch to Catholic. Immediately after, the Byzantine emperor offers his princesses as my heir's wife.

Kinda odd eh? 1 minute we're their biggest enemy and threat, the next, they want us as their son-in-law. There should have been some residual negative opinion for our heineous raids on Constantinople for the last 100 years.

 

[Quixotic1099]

Great stories, the game is incredible at just how many different scenarios can arise.

 

[Silversweeeper]

A problem with swearing fealty (unless you culture and religion convert) is that the Orthodox vassals of the ERE and the emperor himself will dislike you for being a Catholic and presumably not Greek, meaning that murder and revoke plots probably will be somewhat likely to get support, and the emperor might even go for tyrannical revokes from time to time if he really dislikes you (I have seen that happen occasionally). On the other hand, not swearing fealty will mean constant de jure claim wars unless you destroy the ERE or lose all de jure land.

 

[Sirrobert1]

Still easier to fight the Emperor in rebellion then it is to fight the entire ERE

 

[JonathanOfArc]

One thing to be ready for and aware of if you do choose to swear to Byzantium is that in time (usually not long) you may find yourself as its Emperor. If you swear fealty, you will be a strong power entity among the rest, probably dwarfing the current Emperor. It's most likely an Elective Succession so you're going to instantly be a great candidate.