'King of Germany' or 'King of the Romans'?

[the_legion]

I found the comment:

The succession laws are only partially moddable. You can change the requirements, but not how they actually work.

Bad news for me. I'll hopefully find some other way to correct this somehow even if it's not what I call "gamebreaking" ^.^

 

[Dutchling]

I don't really see a problem with the kingdom of Germany. It makes sure there is a possible replacement for the HRE (together with Burgundy and Italy) if the games goes very unnhistorical without having any impact in the game at all if it does go (semi) historical.
At least, that is how I understand it.

 

[Dakk]

[...]without having any impact in the game at all if it does go (semi) historical.

Exactly.

But people are already "fixing" and "correcting" this... :wacko:

 

[Valvinar]

I dont think the OP has a problem with there being a de jure kingdom there. the OP was just wondering/hoping that the title of King of Germany was the more historical title of King of the Romans. just a simple change in names.

 

[Diet of Worms]

But that's basically the same as having a "Kingdom of France" and a "Kingdom of West Francia" at the same time.
The emperor was King of the Romans which is basically the same thing as Germany. So I cannot imagine any circumstances under which
a "King of the Romans"(implying that is included in Empire title) and a "King of Germany" could coexist in the same realm
but this could happen ingame when a vassal forms the fictional Kingdom of Germany.

I'm not sure there is too much of a problem. Even in-game, you'll only get the title created in exceptional circumstances. For a vassal of the emperor to become king, he'd have to own 50% of Germany. Easier to become emperor...

 

[Captain Gars]

You didn't find any historical references because it's not a historical title as used in the game. It's basically there for a-historical implosions of the Empire or a very, very strong vassal of the Empire.

And I have yet to see it form, so I don't think anyone has to worry too much about seeing the AI form it.

So I cannot imagine any circumstances under which a "King of the Romans"(implying that is included in Empire title) and a "King of Germany" could coexist in the same realm but this could happen ingame when a vassal forms the fictional Kingdom of Germany.

If half of HRE splits off due to, say, religious differences, forming something like the Kingdom of Germany to be able to protect themselves isn't that far fetched. Not that we included it for such a case - as I said the AI never forms it to the best of my knowledge - it just has to due with how titles are organized.

 

[Smeel]

I consider the de jure kingdom of germany are the part of the map that uses "german law" inside the empire. Does that make sense to you people?

 

[Gottskalk]

In 1028, after his coronation as Emperor in 1027, Conrad II had his son, Henry III, elected King of Germany by the prince electors. When, in 1035, Conrad attempted to depose Adalbero, Duke of Carinthia, Henry, acting on the advice of his tutor, Egilbert, Bishop of Freising, refused to allow it, as Adalbero was a vassal of the King of Germany, not the Emperor. The German magnates, having legally elected Henry, would not recognise the deposition unless their king did also. After many angry protests, Conrad finally knelt before his son and pleaded for his desired consent, which was finally given.

from wikipedia about kingdom of germany

Just an interesting fact. It would be kinda cool to be able to make your son the king of germany so he had some authority to be later elected as the emperor.

 

[Arko]

If half of HRE splits off due to, say, religious differences, forming something like the Kingdom of Germany to be able to protect themselves isn't

early reformation ?

 

[louie97]

early reformation ?

Probably heresies.

 

[InnocentIII]

early reformation ?

Jan Hus, King of all the Germans!

Kings can claim/form Ducal titles, but Emperors cannot form or claim King titles? Fine by me, but somewhat unexpected.

 

[Andrzej I]

I assume that is because of the way the elections works for elective empires - only direct vassals of the emperor, duke level or higher, can vote. At least, that seems to be the case. If the emperor could make a king title, then he could negate the votes of many dukes.

 

[Wezqu]

I assume that is because of the way the elections works for elective empires - only direct vassals of the emperor, duke level or higher, can vote. At least, that seems to be the case. If the emperor could make a king title, then he could negate the votes of many dukes.

Thats not really right as you can vote in HRE elections even if you would not be a vassal of the HRE as long as you have one duke tittle from the de jure HRE.

 

[Andrzej I]

Ah, yes. Pardon. I meant direct vassal in the de jure empire. I do remember something being said about the Kingdom of Bohemia, where if it was formed, it would deny the Dukes of Bohemia and Moravia their votes. Maybe I'm remembering things wrong?

 

[Ruwaard]

This is new and very disappointing to me. No Kingdom of Jerusalem founding possible?
Do I have to grant all the lands to a vassal waiting untill he creates and then imprison
him to get King of Jerusalem as Emperor?
The better sollution for the Bohemia situation would be to prevent everyone with
non-slavic culture to form the Kingdom of Bohemia imho ...

To the OP:
I agree 100%, there was only a king of the romans but I gave up that paradox would introduce it.
We can (and will certainly) mod it in with one little text-change in the files. Oh, and a little fun fact-
The pope did call the roman kings sometimes "Rex Teutonicorum" but only as a medieval form
of trolling.
The Emperor thing is also true but fact is that every "german" king saw himself as emperor and it's hard
to make a title "currently not in use" untill the formal coronation in rome took place ingame. This is part of the
abstraction a game has to make sadly (Programming needed for special situation > gameplay gains).

Maybe the HR Emperor (and his Byzantine counterpart) should only be excluded from doing so in certain regions, for instance within the de jure imperial borders (or at least the (Roman-) German Kingdom)? I've mixed feelings about this too, on the one hand this can be exploited by emperors, but on the other hand it can be too restrictive; so at least certain rules are IMHO needed.
I'm not sure whether I would like that, instead I'd prefer that it would require to actually control Bohemia (and Moravia). This IMHO should still be possible for all HRE vassals and others

 

[Joel M Bridge]

Piss contest become Emperor being crown by the pope, is massive deal, irony the Donation of Constantine which the pope the claim there right to crown emperor from is complex fraud. Other funny thing Charlemange when was crown pope, it may been ilegal, when ERE/ regonize him as emperor then he was legaly Emperor reguardless if pope crown him or not.

 

[Captain Gars]

Probably heresies.

Yes.

 

[Ruwaard]

Thats not really right as you can vote in HRE elections even if you would not be a vassal of the HRE as long as you have one duke tittle from the de jure HRE.

This is another compromise, which could have been different with respect to Bohemia. For instance a rule, which only allows the dukes of Bohemia and Moravia to vote, if the kingdom of Bohemia isn't formed.

 

[Wallain]

A little off-topic question, but can we mod in the ability for emperor-tiers to make kingdom titles?

 

[Brent15]

If half of HRE splits off due to, say, religious differences, forming something like the Kingdom of Germany to be able to protect themselves isn't that far fetched. Not that we included it for such a case - as I said the AI never forms it to the best of my knowledge - it just has to due with how titles are organized.

I'm glad it was included - sounds like a reasonable setup to me.