Killed or captured generals

[Gen. Skobelev]

I kind of liked how in Stony Road you could use up supplies to save up general who would be otherwise event-killed. If such possibility could be facilitated for saving (=sending best medical care staff etc) general who dies randomly, I'd be ok with it. But if such option isn't possible, I'd rather not have random deaths to screw up the game.

 

[Darkath]

I kind of liked how in Stony Road you could use up supplies to save up general who would be otherwise event-killed. If such possibility could be facilitated for saving (=sending best medical care staff etc) general who dies randomly, I'd be ok with it. But if such option isn't possible, I'd rather not have random deaths to screw up the game.

That's actually a good idea.

Sort of like the event in EU4 when you can pay a trained medicus to save your heir or pray and let him die (except without the chance of him dying anyway )

 

[Joppos]

This may perhaps have been because Paulus was hiding in a basement before giving himself up, if he'd wanted to get out, he could have.

And Rommel might have not been able to escape had he not left North africa a couple of months before the forces surrendered. I was not talking about specifics, but rather gave an example of a guy not using a small plane to escape an encirclement.

 

[seattle]

This may perhaps have been because Paulus was hiding in a basement before giving himself up, if he'd wanted to get out, he could have.

Paulus didn't escape because he already had a job offer on the table from the Soviets. Remember he was a muppet and part of the GDR-propaganda machine after the war. Not the bravest and most honourable of German leaders, rather a weak opportunist.

 

[aruon]

Paulus didn't escape because he already had a job offer on the table from the Soviets. Remember he was a muppet and part of the GDR-propaganda machine after the war. Not the bravest and most honourable of German leaders, rather a weak opportunist.

ah, so he was a politician.

 

[DoomBunny]

And Rommel might have not been able to escape had he not left North africa a couple of months before the forces surrendered. I was not talking about specifics, but rather gave an example of a guy not using a small plane to escape an encirclement.

I'd say that's more a matter of choice though. Had Paulus wanted to/been ordered to, he could have gotten out.

Paulus didn't escape because he already had a job offer on the table from the Soviets. Remember he was a muppet and part of the GDR-propaganda machine after the war. Not the bravest and most honourable of German leaders, rather a weak opportunist.

Uhuh.

 

[BunnyPoopCereal]

potential pros:
- it punished the player who relies on just a couple of superior leaders (I imagine the better commanders tended to be close to the front where they could more accurately judge the situation and react to it), so it could create an interesting choice between deploying your best leader to solve a very tricky situation and being more sure of success, but also risking losing this leader because the situation is so difficult
- shakes up tactics and strategies because you are forced to adapt to potentially losing someone making your strategy work

cons:
- nobody thinks famous leaders randomly dying early is particularly fun, and its a hard hit to delivering historical flavor.

We've discussed it as a mechanic, but we are currently sceptical because it would either be lots of working on a mechanic you would almost never see happen, or be common enough that you are likely to see a lot of famous people getting picked off, watering down historical flavor and sad players restarting because they can't use and roleplay with their favourites.

You may be right I just wanna play with Gotthard Heinrici - The master of defense

 

[MartinSWE]

When it comes to Generals the sigle most important thing is that the 'Great Purge' in for the USSR is made to work in a less random/definite fashion and with more focus on historical facts.

It´s a fact that out of the vast numbers of officers being arrested during it only a small fraction where actually executed and most where instead imprisoned or just demoted and then in late 1941 after the early disasters in the Great Patriotic War many of them where pardoned and reappointed (this included such men as Konstantin Rokossovsky who went on to become a Field Marshal).

 

[vonhavoc]

Paulus couldnt fly away due to sovjets controlling the sky. Even IF he would have made it out, he would have died. Hitler made him a Field Marshal to give him a hint - he was intended to do suicide. As Paulus obviously didnt think that was a viable solution, what do you think Hitler would have done to him if he fled?

Wrong. Germans were flying delegation officers in and out of the encircled Stalingrad many a times. Heck, everyone knows even transport planes flew into the city. Even after the airfields were lost, Fieseler-Storch aircraft was more than able to land and take off from Stalingrad.

Paulus chose to stay with the troops.

 

[BattleMoose]

When a formation is forced to surrender, I want the commanders captured. Its no fun having to capture Patton half a dozen times.

 

[Darkrenown]

Yeah because that sounds so good. Why should the AI be able to check how many troops I have totally, may I remind you that historically Germany was not so strong at the time as they made the Allies believe through propaganda and impressive military parades. They could maybe check how many troops I have on the border but there is no reason why they should be able to know how many troops I have in reserve some provinces behind the border. And that as Germany you could disband your entire military is not a valid point as I have never seen happen the AI do ever (in fact the AI could not disband any troops) and the player would have to be very stupid to make a move like that as they would find themselves not even being able to conquer Poland and would be pretty much game over...

So you think that in 1938 the Allies had no idea at all that Germany had rearmed? They had absolutely no clue that they had expanded their army, reintroduced conscription, and built tanks and military planes? On a similar note, you think no one would have noticed had Germany completely disbanded their army?

 

[Augustus93]

So you think that in 1938 the Allies had no idea at all that Germany had rearmed? They had absolutely no clue that they had expanded their army, reintroduced conscription, and built tanks and military planes? On a similar note, you think no one would have noticed had Germany completely disbanded their army?

They knew about the German expansion of their military but they thought that Germany was stronger than it was in reality. It was in German interest that the Allied overestimated their military capabilities. Hence it would go against all logic for Germany to disband their entire military and you could argue that the player is capable of doing it but it would to the best of my knowledge not be beneficial in any way so close to the historical out brake of WW2 (maybe in 1936 it could be beneficial if there is a lack of manpower or the current composition is not good enough). And if the AI does it then that would be considered a rather huge bug, wouldn't it? They would notice if Germany would suddenly just disband their entire army but if they disbanded say 25% then they would maybe not notice as long as Germany have troops on the border.

 

[Joppos]

They knew about the German expansion of their military but they thought that Germany was stronger than it was in reality. It was in German interest that the Allied overestimated their military capabilities. Hence it would go against all logic for Germany to disband their entire military and you could argue that the player is capable of doing it but it would to the best of my knowledge not be beneficial in any way so close to the historical out brake of WW2 (maybe in 1936 it could be beneficial if there is a lack of manpower or the current composition is not good enough). And if the AI does it then that would be considered a rather huge bug, wouldn't it? They would notice if Germany would suddenly just disband their entire army but if they disbanded say 25% then they would maybe not notice as long as Germany have troops on the border.

Nobody have to my knowledge stated that the AI should know to 100 % what other armies consist of. It could just as easily be based on incomplete intelligence such as the players themselves probably would have at their disposal. The point isn't that it would be weird for a country to disband all its troops, but rather that other countries should act based on intelligence of this. It would make no sense for a country to fear for example Germany if it seems weak compared to itself.

 

[Darkrenown]

They knew about the German expansion of their military but they thought that Germany was stronger than it was in reality. It was in German interest that the Allied overestimated their military capabilities. Hence it would go against all logic for Germany to disband their entire military and you could argue that the player is capable of doing it but it would to the best of my knowledge not be beneficial in any way so close to the historical out brake of WW2 (maybe in 1936 it could be beneficial if there is a lack of manpower or the current composition is not good enough). And if the AI does it then that would be considered a rather huge bug, wouldn't it? They would notice if Germany would suddenly just disband their entire army but if they disbanded say 25% then they would maybe not notice as long as Germany have troops on the border.

A player in HoI could easily disband their army early to save on supply costs while they tech up and prepare to build an all new military in 39/40. Events didn't care about that though, they just know everyone needs to fold to "scary" Germany's demands in '38.

 

[Augustus93]

A player in HoI could easily disband their army early to save on supply costs while they tech up and prepare to build an all new military in 39/40. Events didn't care about that though, they just know everyone needs to fold to "scary" Germany's demands in '38.

It would be way easier to just set the slider to 0, it didn't really matter if your military was out of supply when it was peace.

 

[Darkrenown]

Events also didn't care about troops being attritioned away to nothing due to lack of supplies. It's the same thing.

 

[Augustus93]

Events also didn't care about troops being attritioned away to nothing due to lack of supplies. It's the same thing.

I know that events have their limitations, but what I am worried about is that the AI will gain total intelligence about how many troops I have without any kind of espionage which should not be the case. Without any espionage they should at most only be able to see how many troops I have at their border.

 

[steveh11]

Returning to topic, I'd love to see the "KIA/MIA" feature for Generals implemented - but wait, we're only talking about Corps commanders and upwards anyway, aren't we, in HOI4? So it may not be terribly important in any case. Extra work for the devs in return for implementing an infrequently called upon feature, and one that (it appears) many players would turn off in any case.

 

[Dalwin]

I know that events have their limitations, but what I am worried about is that the AI will gain total intelligence about how many troops I have without any kind of espionage which should not be the case. Without any espionage they should at most only be able to see how many troops I have at their border.

Don't think of the AI as one entity like a person. The computer already "knows" where all your stuff is. That info is not made available to the AI when it is playing various countries. Making it available to the event decision process does not make it available to the AI in its role as a player.

 

[PEP]

Returning to topic, I'd love to see the "KIA/MIA" feature for Generals implemented - but wait, we're only talking about Corps commanders and upwards anyway, aren't we, in HOI4? So it may not be terribly important in any case. Extra work for the devs in return for implementing an infrequently called upon feature, and one that (it appears) many players would turn off in any case.

26 German Army and Corps commanders were KIA during the war. The number of "lost" high-ranking generals is even higher if you count those that were captured or executed and those that died in accidents or committed suicide. That's far from negligible and it's in my opinion a strong argument in favour of in-game generals dying from time to time...

I understand that many people would hate to randomly lose their beloved generals but I think I have a possible solution. Assuming Theatres, AG, army and corps HQs are still on-map units in HoI4, a commanding general could have a (very) small chance of being killed each time his HQ is under attack. That way generals wouldn't die randomly (which would indeed be annoying) and would only perish as a result of the player inability to protect his HQs. Note that this would also work well for naval battles.