Khanate Land sliders

[Zander]

All the plains Khanates (Sibir, Kazakh Horde, Nogai, Uzbek Kaganate) have the same sliders as the Golden Horde. Mostly, these are fine, but the Land/Naval slider is set at 6. (The Chagatai also have Land of 6, though some sliders are different.) This is ridiculous, as these countries have no interest in the ocean, no possible access to a port, and should not be encouraged to colonize.

So, unless there is a cogent objection, I would suggest setting the Land sliders for the following countries from 6 to 10:
Sibir
Kazakh Horde
Nogai
Uzbek Kaganate
Chagatai Khanate

It also seems like the Golden Horde should be at or at least near 10, but they at least have ports and a CoT.

 

[BiB]

Well there is the fact it'l make them quite a bit stronger to be considered.

 

[Zander]

I really doubt you'd see a big change in the AI's performance by raising those Land sliders from 6 to 10. Yes, I suppose it would make them a little easier on a human player, but is that a big problem?

Regardless, if we want to handicap them (for whatever reason), perhaps we can do it in a faintly historical way?

 

[AndrewT]

Done, although it'd be nice if someone could run a little test and see if it does make a difference.

I wonder how many other land-locked countries there are that this should be considered for? Maybe some of the NA Indian nations, and indeed the inland northern Indian nations too.

 

[BiB]

The ai alerady has it tough enough to run over these nations it is supposed to run over, this does make it even harder. IMO Russia not getting past the khanates is a problem of far greater magnitude when it comes to long term overall historicity of the game than this. There are more nations who have seemingly weird dp settings but settings nevertheless that help the overall game. U'll find people care a lot more about Russia getting thru the Khanates in due time than the Astrakhan land slider.

 

[Owen]

Well there is the fact it'l make them quite a bit stronger to be considered.

Are you talking about manpower BiB? I don't have the game to hand, but if their sliders are changed to give them very low morale the manpower increase would be more than offset. Either that, or the manpower or population of those provinces could be reduced to compensate.

Come to think of it, the Golden Horde were hardly a minor sea power either.

 

[BiB]

Are you talking about manpower BiB? I don't have the game to hand, but if their sliders are changed to give them very low morale the manpower increase would be more than offset. Either that, or the manpower or population of those provinces could be reduced to compensate.

Come to think of it, the Golden Horde were hardly a minor sea power either.

The land slider also pretty much is the main source of morale.

IF u continue the same logic u can also argue those mongol tribes weren't siege like, fortifications people either, so full offensive is in order, adding even more morale, ...

Given the new importance of morale, I really want to see the ai do what it is supposed to do then.

 

[Owen]

The land slider also pretty much is the main source of morale.

IF u continue the same logic u can also argue those mongol tribes weren't siege like, fortifications people either, so full offensive is in order, adding even more morale, ...

Given the new importance of morale, I really want to see the ai do what it is supposed to do then.

True enough, but that's why I suggested making quality=0 (or even better, 1) but then hitting province manpower and/or population, and also serfdom=10. I think those two values must be fairly close to that already though. Perhaps someone could post the current complete set of steppe dummy domestic sliders for discussion?

 

[unmerged(6159)]

Which would pretty much ensure that Russia never gets much manpower from those provinces. Doesn't seem like a great idea to me.

 

[Owen]

Which would pretty much ensure that Russia never gets much manpower from those provinces. Doesn't seem like a great idea to me.

Do you really think Russia's main problem is manpower? Also, did they gain lots of manpower from that area historically? Certainly reducing manpower in the area of the Golden Horde and Astrakhan would be wrong in the long term, but I'm not so sure it would be wrong to reduce it in the Nogai, Uzbek and Kazakh provinces.

 

[BiB]

I can't remember teh last time I saws the ai russia reach the Nogai, Uzbek or Khazakhs actually

That's kinda my point, all thsi achieves is make it even harder.

Btw Russia pretty much has max serfdom and low quality too.

 

[devil]

I agree with BiB, I can't remember seeing russia go past the Golden Horde, mostly Golden Horde exists far longer, than it should, and russia never gets to asia.

 

[Owen]

I can't remember teh last time I saws the ai russia reach the Nogai, Uzbek or Khazakhs actually

That's kinda my point, all thsi achieves is make it even harder.

Btw Russia pretty much has max serfdom and low quality too.

So the problem isn't there, the problem is with the Golden Horde, Astrakhan and Sibir.

Maybe Russia's monarch MIL ratings could be upgraded. That would give her help there and against uber-Sweden.

 

[devil]

So the problem isn't there, the problem is with the Golden Horde, Astrakhan and Sibir.

Maybe Russia's monarch MIL ratings could be upgraded. That would give her help there and against uber-Sweden.

that would maybe be an idea, I can't think of anything myself.

 

[kurtbrian]

but why do we need to strenghten the khanates?

maybe add some sort of inherritance event to russia, like the one that makes the ottomans inherrit the mamelukes?

 

[Zander]

On the morale question, the Khans already all have Quality 2 and Serfdom 10.

I agree that Russia has too much trouble taking them, but that's really an AI factor - Spain has trouble taking the Aztecs, and it's not because their troops aren't way better. I'm not sure there's any extent (in the current engine) to which you could weaken the Khanates that an AI Russia would usually sweep through them.

 

[doktarr]

Done, although it'd be nice if someone could run a little test and see if it does make a difference.

If they are doing too well, you could start them out with some inflation. You could also make some of their provinces unfortified, particularly the far northern ones.

I wonder how many other land-locked countries there are that this should be considered for? Maybe some of the NA Indian nations, and indeed the inland northern Indian nations too.

Songhai in Africa should definitely be land 10.

 

[devil]

but why do we need to strenghten the khanates?

maybe add some sort of inherritance event to russia, like the one that makes the ottomans inherrit the mamelukes?

Sound like a good idea

 

[Zander]

That would make sense for Sibir, given the ease of their conquest. Some have suggested changing their state religion to Pagan (despite the fact that it's not historically appropriate) for similar reasons.
However, the "no new events" rule pretty much thwarts any intention to add events to solve Russia's expansion problems.

 

[NitramDatsgnos]

How about just removing some forts in the area?

Would make it as easy for russia to conquer the steppes as it already is for Sweden to conquer Russia, if I am not mistaken.

Not sure about the historicalness of the solution, but i doubt the Russians actually were wasting several 10k armies on wintersieges to get them one by one either.