In that case, why doesn't Byzantium have cores on all of Italy, Spain, most of France, and parts of Germany, on top of all of North Africa, Egypt, the Black Sea coast, and cultures to match most of these? Even if there was a good historical reason for the claims, which I still don't believe should count in this case, then we should seriously nerf the cores just for gameplay. Anyways, it's open to discussion so we will see.
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CaptainBOB said:
Because they are the Eastern Roman empire, not the Roman empire, and no one would see those as real claims. However, the Caliphates actually have some claim to the cores they get. However, if its a Sunni government and they try to grab up all of the Shiite land, wouldn't that cause some massive problems. I mean they don't like each other now, much less back then. Right now, you take those provinces, you get a hit to centrazation (a major one) and up aristocracy but with no RR. (event 200740, come on which human would take any thing but option one.)
Sure there is some small RR later (10 is high, but its only for a year. You might get one or two revolts out of that.). I guess I just think that the Caliphate needs its cores cut down, or gain some later on. Maybe half of the Persian cores in 1430 like it is now, and then if you get all of those 5, you can get the other half in 1500 or so. If you want to keep all of the cores at once, make it a pain to take all of the provinces.
Eh... If I were a 15th century Persian, I'd rather be a citizen of the Kaliphate than the Timurid Empire. Anyway, true acceptance comes with Persian culture, IMO, and that's considerably harder to acquire...Billdo said:
no the abbasids had very valid claim, let me explain.In 873, they lost the eastern provinces up to Samarkand, andKohrasan.The Persians remained docilly part of the Caliphate, and before the mongolian onslaught they were citizens of the empire.However I can agree that 10 cores is a bit too much.
I'll tell you what, the caliphate will try to regain all lands up to Isfahan, if they do, in the year 1504, they can invade the rest of persia.Why did I specify 1504?because a man by the name Khalid nassir Id-Din lived at the time.He was an arab sunni , converted from shiitism.It was his interference in Persia that ignited the hatred between the Ottoman Empire and Persia in RL.I have an idea...
trigger if u have tabirastan, Tabriz,Hamadan,Awhaz,and Isfahan
Persian Conquests
Khalid Nassir Id-Din, Naib of Persia, and mayor of Isfahan, was a former shiite who converted to the sunni madhab in Baghdad.He was but a simple noble, but gained much power in Persia when the mongols were driven out.He left the shia path,embarcing the sunnah as the true form of Islam.
In 1504, he arrived to the Great Abbasid Palace, asking for audience with Caliph "insert name" to discuss the matter of Persia.He informed the Caliph that he wished to expand into the rest of Persia, to break down the last vistages of mongolian power, and save persia from the cluthces of the barbaric Orientals.Khalid Nassir Id-Din aslready mustered a massive army, and intended to reach Samarkand herself to free the Persians for the glory of the Caliphate.Tempting my Caliph....
Persia is OURS!Yihhad against the barbarians!
+1 stab
5000 infantry in isfahan
3000 cavalry in isfahan
-400 relations with Tims
-400 Mughuls
War!
trigger A
We can not attack our brothers!
(fill it with watevah you wish)
minus stab, revolts...etc
Persian Army Victorious!
My lord!Good news, Khalid Nassir Id-Din has reached Samarkand and captured the city!We are victorious!All of Persia trembles with fear as our flag ordains Samarkand!
I knew he could do it!
+ stab
Cores
trigger B in the future, perhaps 1534
Savavid Dynasty arises in Isfahan(1534
When Khalid Nassir Id-Din returned to the Caliphate victorious, he worked hard to convert his people and improve their lifestyle within the Empire.He also married a Savavid maiden, a noble woman from the rich Shia family.
Alas, in the years to come, Khalid was greatly affected by her and her shia ways, and in time, returned to the shia path.He is up in arms against us!
Bastard heretics!
Revolts + -stab
20+ revolt risk
Savavid Dynasty is defeated (1546)
After many years of fighting we have defeat the Persian dynasty my lord, we are the true masters of Persia.Khalid Nassir Id-Din was beheaded in front of the main mosque in Karbala, can anyone deny our power?the people have been assimilated, and our mastery is unqeuvical!
gain Persian Culture
and thats it plus losing the revolt risk.
ok erm :wacko: this is the arabs opinion, dunno if you Franks will like it
I'll tell you what, the caliphate will try to regain all lands up to Isfahan, if they do, in the year 1504, they can invade the rest of persia.Why did I specify 1504?because a man by the name Khalid nassir Id-Din lived at the time.He was an arab sunni , converted from shiitism.It was his interference in Persia that ignited the hatred between the Ottoman Empire and Persia in RL.I have an idea...
trigger if u have tabirastan, Tabriz,Hamadan,Awhaz,and Isfahan
Persian Conquests
Khalid Nassir Id-Din, Naib of Persia, and mayor of Isfahan, was a former shiite who converted to the sunni madhab in Baghdad.He was but a simple noble, but gained much power in Persia when the mongols were driven out.He left the shia path,embarcing the sunnah as the true form of Islam.
In 1504, he arrived to the Great Abbasid Palace, asking for audience with Caliph "insert name" to discuss the matter of Persia.He informed the Caliph that he wished to expand into the rest of Persia, to break down the last vistages of mongolian power, and save persia from the cluthces of the barbaric Orientals.Khalid Nassir Id-Din aslready mustered a massive army, and intended to reach Samarkand herself to free the Persians for the glory of the Caliphate.Tempting my Caliph....
Persia is OURS!Yihhad against the barbarians!
+1 stab
5000 infantry in isfahan
3000 cavalry in isfahan
-400 relations with Tims
-400 Mughuls
War!
trigger A
We can not attack our brothers!
(fill it with watevah you wish)
minus stab, revolts...etc
Persian Army Victorious!
My lord!Good news, Khalid Nassir Id-Din has reached Samarkand and captured the city!We are victorious!All of Persia trembles with fear as our flag ordains Samarkand!
I knew he could do it!
+ stab
Cores
trigger B in the future, perhaps 1534
Savavid Dynasty arises in Isfahan(1534
When Khalid Nassir Id-Din returned to the Caliphate victorious, he worked hard to convert his people and improve their lifestyle within the Empire.He also married a Savavid maiden, a noble woman from the rich Shia family.
Alas, in the years to come, Khalid was greatly affected by her and her shia ways, and in time, returned to the shia path.He is up in arms against us!
Bastard heretics!
Revolts + -stab
20+ revolt risk
Savavid Dynasty is defeated (1546)
After many years of fighting we have defeat the Persian dynasty my lord, we are the true masters of Persia.Khalid Nassir Id-Din was beheaded in front of the main mosque in Karbala, can anyone deny our power?the people have been assimilated, and our mastery is unqeuvical!
gain Persian Culture
and thats it plus losing the revolt risk.ok erm :wacko: this is the arabs opinion, dunno if you Franks will like it
Hehe I tried to comment earlier but I ran out of time...anyways, the event looks good on the surface but I propose really, really nasty revolts for the re-conversion to shi'ite event. Like the Dutch revolts in vanilla even. The Caliphate need some malus for aquiring those incredibly valuable provs, and a massive revolt just might do it. I dunno, we will have to see some of the gameplay effects of the newer events first, before we really mess around with this too much.
CaptainBOB said:
Actually we could scale back this revolt idea and just go with my earlier shi'ite resurgence event idea that keeps converting the provs back, the 30 percent malus would probably hurt them plenty. Still, some revolt risk is obviously in order, but we should probably have some "buy the rebels" option in there like many other major revolts have, leaving it fairly open ended for MP. The only question is what are the long term results?
P.S. oops accidentally pressed reply instead of edit....
well those events for persia will be expanded, the long term to subdue Persia by purging Shiitism and gaining persian culture that would take about 200 years in the long terms.
that would take about 200 years in the long terms.
I think you might want to wait until the Hindustan events are done...using Persia as a battleground either the Caliphate or Hindustan would get Persian culture depending on who won the war with each other, and managed to hold the territory long enough. The loser would lose all cores on Persia.
In the meantime....start churning out the Kaliphate events that aren't Persian related (the internal ones until we can sit down with someone and discuss external wars, probably Byz and Fatamids coding people), and I will get to coding. Some early game Persian events are ok, but we can't get too far ahead of ourselves.
I agree with reducing the starting cores. Cores don't only represent claims, valid or not, but also immediate acceptance by the inhabitants (no nationalism), while same-culture represent long-term acceptance.
On the point of somewhat limiting the power of the Caliphate, I'd also cut in the leaders. Eh, they've all their monarchs as leaders, even some who have MIL 4. And they also have a monarch-leader with 4/3/3/1 for 48 years. I'd bet he would be either too young in the beginning of his reign, or too old later. I'd gladly cut his length by half.
Another possibility is a series of suprise-events, in case of death of the monarch-leader during a battle (or attrition) while at low stability. If this happen, another monarch is brought, an interregnum monarch with really bad skills, hand-in-hand with some revolts and an increased revoltrisk for some years. Reasonning : if the Caliph dies (or is seriously wounded, enough to quit all leadership of armies), while at the same time the country is not quiet (anything under stab +1), some unrest would start, the caliph would be killed, and replaced by the great vizir for some time.
On the point of somewhat limiting the power of the Caliphate, I'd also cut in the leaders. Eh, they've all their monarchs as leaders, even some who have MIL 4.
And they also have a monarch-leader with 4/3/3/1 for 48 years. I'd bet he would be either too young in the beginning of his reign, or too old later. I'd gladly cut his length by half.Another possibility is a series of suprise-events, in case of death of the monarch-leader during a battle (or attrition) while at low stability. If this happen, another monarch is brought, an interregnum monarch with really bad skills, hand-in-hand with some revolts and an increased revoltrisk for some years. Reasonning : if the Caliph dies (or is seriously wounded, enough to quit all leadership of armies), while at the same time the country is not quiet (anything under stab +1), some unrest would start, the caliph would be killed, and replaced by the great vizir for some time.
Im not a magician! Americans, so demanding !demand demand demand! never giving ok I will work with some baddy events soon, but I dont like it ....
Americans, so demanding !demand demand demand! never giving ok I will work with some baddy events soon, but I dont like it ....Hehe pull a rabit out of your hat next !
Anyways I'm doing the coding so I think I'm giving a bit . Let's call it even lol .
Anyways, all the events don't have to be bad...just most of them lol. Besides it's likely to be minor unrest for most of these events since it seems like the consensus is that we should make Persia the big area where the Kaliphate has issues in, so I'm not overly likely to code huge RR in.
!Anyways I'm doing the coding so I think I'm giving a bit
. Let's call it even lol . Anyways, all the events don't have to be bad...just most of them lol. Besides it's likely to be minor unrest for most of these events since it seems like the consensus is that we should make Persia the big area where the Kaliphate has issues in, so I'm not overly likely to code huge RR in.
*cries* you All dont care!you think Im some slave or something! nobody loves me....
Anyway, I have some ideas I will post soon about the Caliphate
nobody loves me....Anyway, I have some ideas I will post soon about the Caliphate
Calipah said:*cries* you All dont care!you think Im some slave or something!
Anyway, I have some ideas I will post soon about the Caliphate
*pulls out a whip*
Back to work!!
:rofl: Anyways, looking forward to seeing your newest ideas. I should be able to get down to really working on them once I get my new network card installed, so I can more easily test events.
P.S. that rofl smiley looks really mean in hindsight
.
Evil Frankish crusaders well I was thinking mostly military events for expanding the army, fortification in the Turkish cities, and some Holy Mosque expansions, not to mention some poets and thinkers, flavour events, hell I can use my poetry
well I was thinking mostly military events for expanding the army, fortification in the Turkish cities, and some Holy Mosque expansions, not to mention some poets and thinkers, flavour events, hell I can use my poetry Does the Kaliphate army need any expansion? I dunno.
Anyways on the Turkish provs note, are we going to remove Turkish culture for the Kaliphate? As it stands, Byzantium really hasn't got anywhere to go besides Turkey. The Kaliphate gets the culture way to easily, also. If we give it to them, then I propose that we make an event for a much later date that requires them owning the provs that are Turkish culture and perhaps have stabhit/RR as a penalty. As it is, they just kinda get the culture for free.
Yeah flavor events sound good, I'll try to get coding.
Lawkeeper do you have any suggested guidelines/limitations as to how far I can take these events? For example, should I put in the possibility of innovativeness changes with poets/thinkers? Or any DP clicks in general? How about cores, conversions, and the like?
Anyways on the Turkish provs note, are we going to remove Turkish culture for the Kaliphate? As it stands, Byzantium really hasn't got anywhere to go besides Turkey. The Kaliphate gets the culture way to easily, also. If we give it to them, then I propose that we make an event for a much later date that requires them owning the provs that are Turkish culture and perhaps have stabhit/RR as a penalty. As it is, they just kinda get the culture for free.
Yeah flavor events sound good, I'll try to get coding.
Lawkeeper do you have any suggested guidelines/limitations as to how far I can take these events? For example, should I put in the possibility of innovativeness changes with poets/thinkers? Or any DP clicks in general? How about cores, conversions, and the like?
well Turkish culture could be gained through a sequence, I was thinking more in the lines of the Selujuks when they affected the Caliphate, something in parralel with the mawla system in Grenada, you know?like the Mamelucks, you can implant them and later gain Turkish culture ans suffer a bit, or just keep the army arabic-kurdish