GLENN

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DocDo Yes, I like to explain short and simple.

Here's some more information from Johan (DD#16).

Large divisions are more expensive to supply.
This creates two additional headaches for you, firstly in low infrastructure provinces you may simply not be able to supply enough divisions to maintain an adequate force to space ratio,
and secondly on the offensive these units will be able to draw even less than the required supplies and take longer to re-supply back up to full offensive ability afterwards.


Got that? Straight and simple.


force to space ratio
reinforcment draw takes longer

Here's the solution for the second problem.

Go to Division click on the do not reinforce. That takes care of manpower and upgrades.

Let's assume this stops the unit from getting supply. Testing will have to be done. If true then detach those de-priotized divisions and go forward with the attack.

If this doesn't work then the priotize button should do the same thing.
Priortized divisions will get the supplies first. Then when full, detach the unsupplied/low supplied units. Continue with attack.

All of this seems very realistic. So, the model looks good.
 

unmerged(148519)

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Yeah, supply system is porked. I am playing USA and starting out, no units doing anything but sitting there and the default tiny army it starts out with. I will start getting hit with updates about various units being out of supply...WHAT? :wacko:

EDIT: I am sure it will get fixed in time
 

Grenville Coney

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I invaded Russia in April 1941 and was in Moscow in 6 weeks and 1 hours :) I screened north from the pripet marshes from Infantry whilst my armour aimed for Kharkov. Then north to Moscow, South to Rostov and also curved pack to create a huge pocket to encircle the remainder of the russian army stilled pinned on the border.

Lots of supply issues as detailed above - I had lots of 4 brigade divisions - 2 ARM & 2 MOT being hogs. With an army of about 700 brgaes including air wings before the invasion I was using 70-80 IC a day on supplies. Now sometimes I peak at requiring 700IC on supplies - though I max out at 420 IC. Not a huge problem but I do wonder what creates these HUGE supply draws.

Interestingly once I conquered Moscow and took the supplies there I must have been transporting them back slowly along the supply lines. because I was spending very little on supplies (80k+ in stock and a 12 day low supply warning flashing :) ) and they were soundly red but they increased by 2-3k a day.

It would be good to prioritise units or corps for supplies though. Think Ardennes for the Germans as they prepped for it.
 

blue emu

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Another point to consider is that moving supply (passing it forward towards your units) actually USES supply. It uses up gas, spare parts and food (for the trucks, drivers and supply clerks) just to move the supplies forward.

Edit: to the person who was experiencing Supply problems with his force deployed on the Yugoslav border... did you actually EXAMINE the Infrastructure of the terrain along that border? Isn't it typically 20-40%?
 

tommuis

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I invaded Russia in April 1941 and was in Moscow in 6 weeks and 1 hours :) I screened north from the pripet marshes from Infantry whilst my armour aimed for Kharkov. Then north to Moscow, South to Rostov and also curved pack to create a huge pocket to encircle the remainder of the russian army stilled pinned on the border.

Lots of supply issues as detailed above - I had lots of 4 brigade divisions - 2 ARM & 2 MOT being hogs. With an army of about 700 brgaes including air wings before the invasion I was using 70-80 IC a day on supplies. Now sometimes I peak at requiring 700IC on supplies - though I max out at 420 IC. Not a huge problem but I do wonder what creates these HUGE supply draws.

Interestingly once I conquered Moscow and took the supplies there I must have been transporting them back slowly along the supply lines. because I was spending very little on supplies (80k+ in stock and a 12 day low supply warning flashing :) ) and they were soundly red but they increased by 2-3k a day.

It would be good to prioritise units or corps for supplies though. Think Ardennes for the Germans as they prepped for it.

i had the same problem, i think the program exagerates it to much, if russia can take some japanese vp ( as hapend to me) you need to go tho siberia..since army was stuck and cant even strat redplo..you have to disband...crazy..so i used the litle paratrooper exploit to get last neede vp's

yes having a button to prioritize armys/divions and combine it with no reinforcements/upgrades would be nice.
 

Grenville Coney

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I like the supply system as it introduces a good dose of realism

When I reached Moscow with my 15 motorised brigades (the armor was 300km back having run out of fuel) they were still at full strength and full org.

Thinking back to the first German units to approach Moscow IRL - well I think one only had 12 Panzers left and they were all but dead due to the reinforcement lag and the much heavier fighting than I experienced. One of the reasons they got pushed back quickly.

Now from my understanding a division on the move will take strength losses whether it is in combat or not. I would suggest that we need something like a 1% a day strength loss for any moving brigade (with possibly a new tech to capture forward engineering units to repair broken trucks etc) - especially if they are hard - possibly 2-5% for them - modified by the reliability tech.

This would have a number of effects on the game. It would limit offensives to a certain point. IRL they alays run out of steam as mean and material breakdown and get exhausted and you need a pause to consolidate. It would also push people into using strategic movement more - and if you gave some HUGE penalties for units in strategic movement entering combat then you have some wonderful oportunities in breakthroughs for chewing up unprepared divisions.

So just as the supply system got 'fixed' so to should the reinforcement system. :)
 

DarkThug

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To people who have problem with supply. Did you attach the said divisions into a complete command chain ?

From my experience, the more HQ you have in range the better supply flow you got.
If you have division attach to HQ corps then attach it a theatre. you'll get only 2 HQ buff.
But if you create army and army group level in between just for this corps (might as well attach other corps lol)
Assume all HQ is in range, you'll get nice 4 buff from HQ. The supply flow is improve noticebly.
Even no commander is commanding those HQ unit.

This is of cause only part of the factors. It may be your port, your infrastucture or your Overpowered stack.
But I suspect many people don't bother organize all level of command chain. They may just simply attach a division to the theatre (just my guess)
As I found these kind of story happen a lot with a unit guarding homeland, Those don't even have any HQ they attach to I suppose ?
 

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Another point to consider is that moving supply (passing it forward towards your units) actually USES supply. It uses up gas, spare parts and food (for the trucks, drivers and supply clerks) just to move the supplies forward.

Edit: to the person who was experiencing Supply problems with his force deployed on the Yugoslav border... did you actually EXAMINE the Infrastructure of the terrain along that border? Isn't it typically 20-40%?

During my invasion of scotland i saw some strange things with supply. The supplies were coming in from 3 ports. Scapa Flow, Aburdine(sp) and that one just north of Edinburgh. Logic would seem to dictate that the units would be supplied from one of these 3 ports. Instead all their 'supplied from's were reading a provience in the dead middle of the highlands, a mountains area surrounded by mountains.

While the idea of a suppy depot outside their incoming ports seems logical somewhat, it doesnt seem logical to locate it in the middle of the mountains and as far away from water as possible. Though I wonder why they would need a seperate supply depot away from the ports considering the size of England is not that big. Especially in southern scotland
 

infinitejest

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Supply might not be broken but it's far too opaque. Sure you can look and infrastructure and supply mode and throughput and etc and get a bunch of numbers, but they generally don't tell you what's wrong. If a unit isn't in supply I should have some notion of *why*. The game should do its best to show me why. Infrastructure is the most transparent in this regard since it has a map mode--it's easy enough to see--but I'm still left to guess whether that 0 infra province behind my lines is really causing the problems or whether the bottleneck is somewhere else.

More than anything the supply system needs a tutorial by the devs or someone that close to the game explaining not only how it works, but working through some concrete examples of supply issues. There's a lot of posts complaining about supply and it's just not clear whether it's buggy or whether the posters aren't considering the right things--all of which just underscores my original point that the system needs to be more transparent.
 

Vertigo024

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Edit: to the person who was experiencing Supply problems with his force deployed on the Yugoslav border... did you actually EXAMINE the Infrastructure of the terrain along that border? Isn't it typically 20-40%?

That might be the case on the yugoslav side of the border, but it's definitely 100% on the German side. Supplies just don't want to go there for some reason.
 

tommuis

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what doesnt make sense is that when deep in russia my units on garison in France get supply problem too( with 99 K supplies and 45k fuel)
I have the proper chain div/korps/army/army group/ theater hq, altough the ai mixes stuff so some are out of range but it doesnt explain the supply problem in france and is also hard to belief that it would create problems to that extent in russia,also do all supplies come from berlin?/if so maybe program tries to create routes to by adding additional line(s) going west and then circle east and that way frence gets less?just brainstorming.
 

Grenville Coney

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That supplies come from Berlin is a simplification. A better way of modelling it would be to allocate supplier production proportionately by IC point on the map and then distribute from there. The complexity of doing it this way would significantly increase the load on the game and not add a great deal of benefit IMO. So a good simplification
 

unmerged(153063)

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Has anyone noticed if a AI with attached transport planes will use them to automatically air supply units? If this works I might be useful for helping units keep in supply. Also since I am new could someone quickly tell me what "WAD" means?
 

blue emu

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That might be the case on the yugoslav side of the border, but it's definitely 100% on the German side. Supplies just don't want to go there for some reason.
Are you SURE? It seems to me that the terrain in the Austrian Alps is low-Infra.
 

blue emu

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You are right it's not 100%, but 80% in the border area, but that does still not explain why no supply line isn't established.
Depends on how many units (and what type... Panzer and Motorized?)... GtGear had deployed on the Yugoslav border. Too many high-demand units would naturally exceed the supply-draw through the Alps.
 

Vertigo024

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Depends on how many units (and what type... Panzer and Motorized?)... GtGear had deployed on the Yugoslav border. Too many high-demand units would naturally exceed the supply-draw through the Alps.

1 HQ 1 MOT div, 1 LARM div and 1 INF div so there should be no undue stress on the alps 80% areas. Closest supplied area is 6 or 7 areas away. Same game I also have Munich going in and out of supply all the time
 

unmerged(32292)

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I have weird supply issues all of the time. Units that haven't moved will suddenly go out of supply in the middle of peace time. My fuel expenditures will shoot up to 40-50 for a week or two, even though my aircraft are all grounded, my armor are stationary, and my ships are all in port.

In theory, the supply system is very cool, and superior to the "transportation capacity" system of HOI2, but in reality it has a lot of inexplicable bugs that still need to be worked out.
 

unmerged(148686)

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I still find it hard to understand why my only unit in Stuttgart - a HQ XXXX - can be out of supply for several months. Everything is static. I'm in '37 and slowly building up my army. Infrastructure is IIRC 100% in most of Germany.