Karaman to Rum Strategy

[spiller68]

Ive been trying to get this new achievement since the dlc came out last week and even when i do a good job and beat the ottomans in a war it's all for nothing. I instantly ally with the mamulukes and annex dulkadir and whatever else i can then wait for further opportunities to expand until i declare war on the ottomans in 1460. They are fighting another war against venice, albania, hungary and bosnia they are winning but have lost a load of men, they got 1 mil tech on me but we fight them and win, and i take 5 provinces off them and force them to return 3 other provinces but it's all for nothing.

about 12 years later just after the mamulukes finish a war against (the country that starts in modern day iraq cant remember name) they Dow me now still one mil tech ahead and we get crushed even in battles with better morale, leader, numbers and terrain bonus. is there some magic strategy to fight them off that in not aware of? please any advice would be incredibly helpful because even if i beat them and i get rid of my leader quickly for a better one i cant seem to catch up in tech and no matter what they almost never seem to get involved in wars with poland/hungary/austria.

 

[Sian]

get friendly with the European Powers that are threatened by Ottomans (Austria, Poland, maybe Castile are considerations) and try to see if you can block them off from expanding east and do so yourself.

 

[spiller68]

get friendly with the European Powers that are threatened by Ottomans (Austria, Poland, maybe Castile are considerations) and try to see if you can block them off from expanding east and do so yourself.

i can never get my relations high enough for an alliance with any of them

 

[Rollins]

I think Reman just put out a video on this. Check it out if you're struggling.
My initial feeling is you're waiting too long or maybe not crippling them enough or 100% them in the first war.

 

[El_Cid_]

I allied AQ and Mamluks, annexed Ramazan and then when I was warned by the Ottomans I was able to dow Dulkadir while they (the Ottomans) were in another tough war.
Called both allies in by promising land.

I made a separate peace with the Ottomans taking my cores, maybe another couple provinces.

 

[caedussl]

Once they fix the vassal inheritance bug it'll be easier to ally European powers.. I gave a half-hearted attempt at it and I could have got an alliance with either Poland or Muscovy, but neither would annex their vassals so I couldn't get past the "too many diplomatic relations" malus. Sitting on -18 with -20 to too many diplorelations is insulting when Poland will be three months from diplo-annexing Mazovia then stop it for god knows what reason.

All the more embarrassing because I screwed up my first attempt when I was served the Ottomans on a silver platter. Ottomans DOW'd Albania in 1447, who was allied to Aragon and Hungary, and guaranteed by Venice. Aragon, Naples, Hungary, and Venice proceeded to 100% Ottomans, return most of Byzantium's cores, and give Karaman all their cores back. I don't even want to get into how I lost that war...

 

[Nwaij]

• Ally Mamelukes on day 1.
• Make both your ruler and heir into generals. Assign the better general to your army, disown the worse.
  
• Eat Dulkadir and Ramazan before Ottos warn you.
• Attack Ottos (promising land to Mamelukes) while they are at war with someone else (Venice and/or Byzantium), with all their troops in the balkans, BEFORE they managed to take Constantinople.
  
• Beeline for the bosporus strait provinces. Once these are occupied, otto troops have a good chance of being locked in in europe, due to AI in the other war blocking the strait.
• Occupy all of Anatolia, take whatever you can - take Ankara for sure, try to cut them in half in Anatolia. If done right, you gain a lot from this war at little cost of manpower.

 

[ElGranCapitan]

Wait for Ramazan to ally Candar and AQ - promise land to Mamluks and cobelligerent them all
Annex Candar, vassalize AQ (yeah you can get them loyal), white peace Ramazan -> no trust lost with Mamluks

If you can attack Dulkadir before the Ottos warn you, do so, if you can't, wait for the Ottos DoW on Dulkadir, it's now their only expansion option in the middle east, and snatch the occupations from them

Now you just need to wait until the ottos get into a bad war in europe

 

[Kingless]

I've tried six runs in the last hour using Reman's strategy. 4 immediately scrapped because Ottoman's Allied France by 1447, 1 went south because Ottoman's annexed Crimea and the Mamluk's sent their entire army up there, and the last one just got scrapped because Otto's ate Trebizond, Albania, Dulkadir, and then vassalised Wallachia by 1450 and I could only ally Mamluk's and QQ (QQ has not once been willing to fight Ottoman's despite wanting their territory)

 

[BenBri]

Edit:

Did some testing and the -1000 modifier "Does't want to be your ally any longer" comes up randomly, sometimes even within the first minutes of a game. What is going on?

How exactly does trust lose work? I lose trust with Mamluks, Poland, Hungary for some secret reason and get gobbled up later by 10 countries dowing me. I hate this black box sometimes. I want rules that I follow and my actions work out if I don't mess it up. I followed Remans strategy step by step, but for whatever reason my 20 games so far do never turn out to something that he shows in his videos. Wouldn't be the first time that I or even professional EUiv gamers like LegendaryMarvin have that issue.

Wait for Ramazan to ally Candar and AQ - promise land to Mamluks and cobelligerent them all
Annex Candar, vassalize AQ (yeah you can get them loyal), white peace Ramazan -> no trust lost with Mamluks

If you can attack Dulkadir before the Ottos warn you, do so, if you can't, wait for the Ottos DoW on Dulkadir, it's now their only expansion option in the middle east, and snatch the occupations from them

Now you just need to wait until the ottos get into a bad war in europe

 

[GaribaldisFleet]

Karaman was also my first nation in CoC. Here what i did:
- Restarted the campaign until Dulkadir couldn't make a strong ally until i finished my fabrication. They only allied to Candar in my 3rd attempt. (It only takes your 10 minutes)
- Formed an alliance with Memlukes on day one and Aq Qoyunlu on day two.
-Dowed Dulkadir as soon as the fabrication done. Vassalized Candar and fullly annexed Dulkadir.
- Now i had bordfers with Otomans, Memlukes and Aqqoyunlu. Aqqoyunlu was allied to Ottomans, so not a suitable target yet.
- Then suddenly i realized Aqqoyunlu's army was destroyed by angry Coptic zealots. I immediately break my alliance. 1 year later Aqkoyunlu was force converted to Coptic and lose all their alliances.
-After 4 years (1453), i dowed Aqqoyunlu which has no allies and fully annexed it. Now i had a border with Trebizond and Qaraqoyunlu too. From now on i used every possibility to expand while maintaining alliance with Poland and Memlukes. Ottomans never felt enough strong to dow me and couldn't be able to take a single province in anatolia.

https://ibb.co/kufga6
https://ibb.co/i3rXhm

 

[ElGranCapitan]

Build a big fleet, if the ottos turn off the fort in ankara and drill their troops declare

they won't engage without full morale and without the fort you can rush Biga

Then block the strait, when he retreats to europe he can't come back - you need a few heavies and some luck with the mamluk fleet helping you and not derping around

 

[bbqftw]

If you can land a war on Ottomans as soon as Mamluks have tech 4, the fort setup is such that you can rush Biga and siege down the rest of Anatolia.

Anyways for the ultimate meme strat, there is about a 20% chance Mehmed starts administrator.

This means you can ally the Ottomans day 1. For the first promise land against Mamluks, you only need to give them Antakya and can take ~88% warscore off the Mamluks for yourself. Rush to 80 trust ASAP and get effective immunity. Here's a run on VH, you can see the dev difference on Ottomans when their eastern expansion is shut down:

Just be careful about subject provs - the Ottomans won't vital interest your stuff at 80 trust but they will vital your subjects stuff.

 

[makaramus]

ally mamluks, serbia, *if willing* hungary. then dow ottoman soon as you can. they cant defeat that big overwhelming force currently

 

[Rabid]

Wait for Ramazan to ally Candar and AQ - promise land to Mamluks and cobelligerent them all
Annex Candar, vassalize AQ (yeah you can get them loyal), white peace Ramazan -> no trust lost with Mamluks

If you can attack Dulkadir before the Ottos warn you, do so, if you can't, wait for the Ottos DoW on Dulkadir, it's now their only expansion option in the middle east, and snatch the occupations from them

Now you just need to wait until the ottos get into a bad war in europe

This seems like a great strat, thanks! Getting maximum value out of that one early war, with Mamluk assistance, should really help.

 

[bbqftw]

For what its worth the Ottoman AI is pretty effective if a bit slow most of the time, the Mamluk one is a brain dead horror, so if you have the choice between the two, its not a hard decision.

 

[ElGranCapitan]

This means you can ally the Ottomans day 1. For the first promise land against Mamluks, you only need to give them Antakya and can take ~88% warscore off the Mamluks for yourself. Rush to 80 trust ASAP and get effective immunity. Here's a run on VH, you can see the dev difference on Ottomans when their eastern expansion is shut down:

It's also possible, if a bit exploity, to no cb Cyprus and co belligerent Mamluks, I did that in my Hisn Kayfa run as any land I give the Ottomans I would have to take back later and taking land from cobelligerents does not affect trust at all
I thought we would 100% the Mamluks and then white peace cyprus with negative ticking warscore but blockade, duration of war and larger army bonuses on our side

But no, the Ottomans attached half their army to me so I could hold off the Mamluks and landed the other half in Cyprus. Then they proceeded to ship that army to Egypt and siege up the the heartland. Let's just say I was amazed, naval AI is better than expected if the distances aren't too big and their navy is much larger than the opponents (in my game Ottomans had ~3 times as many galleys as the Mamluks)

If the Mamluks ally some turkish minor you can to do even without risking the failure of the naval AI