Kara Koyunlu's dash for Greatness - an EU2 SG

[Brian Roastbeef]

Well, I suppose I can take my turn now, but I'll wait a little while longer just to see where he stands now just in case there is an autosave or something. I want to avoid running into an overlapping turns problem if its at all possible.

Lordling, if you're too frustrated/busy/pissed off to give it another go right now, drop a post and let us know, and you can play your 5th round down the line. Otherwise, I'm in no hurry. Considering the circumstances, there's no reason for us not to hold off another day or two so he can sort things out and give it another shot.

Yodamaster, thanks for watching over us. I suppose it isn't too often that you get to watch a successful Kara Koyunlu-turned-Safavids game in action. I hope you're enjoying it.

By the way, Yoda, just in case you weren't aware yet, the AGCEEP site is down. Domain name needs to be renewed.

 

[Lordling]

Yeah, I think I'd rather skip my turn. It's just irritating to replay so much.

 

[Brian Roastbeef]

Okay, well in that case, I've downloaded the save file. I'll probably play it tomorrow sometime.

 

[unmerged(40707)]

By the way, Yoda, just in case you weren't aware yet, the AGCEEP site is down. Domain name needs to be renewed.

Yes, I know... be patient!

 

[Brian Roastbeef]

1549-1558: Economic and Diplomatic Rebuilding​

There was nothing even remotely close to a war for the Safavid Empire during this ten year period. With Badboy starting out at nearly 14, I wanted some time for it to cool off. The Ottomans hit LT 14 very shortly after my turn began, so there wasn't much opportunity to go after them anyway. Everything was pretty quiet elsewhere.

I did accomplish some things during my turn, on the domestic side, and had a few decent events. First of all, I built two refineries, even taking out a couple of loans (since repaid, of course) to get the second in at the cheaper price as soon as possible. We now have a total of four refineries.

In Feb. 1549, I took us a step toward Naval. Though I still tend to prefer land, playing a Shiite nation is a different animal entirely, and we are in need of more colonists, stronger trade efficiency, and more merchants. Naval does accomplish 2 of the 3. We'll lose manpower and morale, but we can currently support 97k troops, and we still have the Shiite morale bonus. I recommend Naval and Free Trade. Narrow-Mindedness might be useful down the road, but I think that's fine where it is for now. We have missionaries to spare, and we aren't hurting our research much.

In 1550 we had a Gift to the State, 200 ducats, that encouraged me to hurry and get that second refinery. 1551 brought us New Land Claimed, I think, or something mildly useful like that. I haven't quite kept track of all of the less important randoms, so stuff might be running together from my Vijayanagar game that I'm playing.

Lordling may get some consolation out of the next one:

Despite the CTD, our investors still remembered to build their bank in 1553. It was quite useful in paying off those manufactories.

In 1554 I sent three merchants to Al Kharam, to get a little more action in as Trade 3 was nearing. The Portuguese bastards embargoed me as a result!

Though it wasn't my aim, it isn't too bad of news either. We now have a CB on them as long as they keep it up. I had no desire to take advantage of that immediately, though, as they were allied to Spain and England (plus I didn't want anybody to think I was trying to get a cheesy CB. I didn't even think they made Trade 4 yet...) This is something to remember down the line though, in case anybody sees a good opportunity to grab Al Kharam, or at least a few colonies off of them in the future.


The Ottoman Empire's war against Poland and Austria didn't go quite as poorly for them as in Lordling's game, but it didn't go well either.

This was actually a decent peace for them. Austria had also occupied Macedonia. They were on the verge of losing Bulgaria, Rumelia, and Hellas as well.


1554 brought an interesting historical event. I actually had to look at this for a little while before deciding what to do.

As you can see, there was no sense in taking the second option, with stability already at its best and Ottoman relations at their worst. I eventually selected the first option, taking the money to more decisively pay off those loans, and taking advantage of the increased diplomatic skill to help against the badboy for a little while.

With the Shah's diplomacy rating temporarily at 11, I made friendly with the Mamluks. I brought them into our alliance when theirs with Dulkadir and Tunisia expired in 1555, with the intention of keeping them protected against the Ottomans. Future players may want to toss them thirty ducats or so every couple of years though, to keep them nice.

I also shot some money to Khiva and vassalized them.

Looking at the screenshot now, I remember we had unhappy artisans. Thats a step toward Free Subjects. I think we had New Land Conquered again sometime after that. No particularly harmful randoms in here.

I'll upload the save file and give the 1559 briefing later tonight.

 

[Brian Roastbeef]

Passing Leadership: January 1, 1559

With ten years of peace, the political map isn't much different than it was in 1549. Two new refineries as mentioned before, in Awhaz and Tabaristan. Ottomans, I think are actually at peace, or at least in a phony war, rather than actively struggling. Orissa is pretty impressive, there, as is Jaunpur (off the map it looks like they've annexed Bengal), don't know if I like that...

The English flag still flies on the bank of the Seine and there are Swedes on the Black Sea. China is over their BB limit and has had a couple of Civil Wars already. No busted governments though.

The religious map has little new to show as well. The conversion that was ongoing in Lut at the start of my turn failed. I didn't start a new one, but there is by far enough money if the next player wishes to do so. Success rate there is 47% with this monarch, and about 22% in Kara Kum and Kurdistan (Armenia in AGCEEP). All cost about 200 ducats, IIRC.

Khiva converted Khiva successfully and has gotten started on Khwarizm. Iraq hasn't bothered even trying lately. The next player can see if sending them some cash will finally get their asses moving, or can just up and annex them. Try to get the Mamluks friendly again if you do, though.

The most interesting item for the next player revolves around an event that happened shortly before my turn ended. If you've looked at the above screenshots closely, you may know what it is already...

With the conquistador, we now have 4 colonists, but still a defecit of 1.10/year (not subtracted like with missionaries, but still quite a lot of DP shifting before we'll gain any.) As you can see, I've sent the dude with about 5,000 cavalry on his way to Lindi. We have Military Access with Kilwa and south of there looks like an unoccupied province. We'd might as well use him to discover some stuff.

Its up to the next player, or at least a consensus here if we should bother trying to start a colony there now. We won't have any decent numbers of colonists until at least five or six more DP shifts or NT 11 and a shipyard, though. I don't know if a colony there will yield negative population growth for us. Maybe TPs would be better just to claim some land. We could lose those pretty easily if we end up at war with Portugal though.


We are at Land Tech 11, and are investing fully in Land, to keep close to the Ottomans who are now in the next CRT. 12 will be completed very soon, in 1559.

We just made Naval Tech 3 in November 1558.

Trade 3 was accomplished February 1555. 4 is due around 1593, just from the Refinery bonuses.

Infra 3. Infra 4 could be done in a reasonable time if we choose to invest there.

BB: 12.2/42
Inflation: 1.2% - not wiped out like Lordling had it, but not bad considering we were once some 14%...
Vassals: Iraq, Imereti, and Khiva
Alliance: Iraq, Khiva, and the Mamluks
CB: Sunni nations, Portugal (embargo), Iraq (core), Sindh (core), maybe a couple of others, I don't know...

Last I knew Uzbeks were allied with Mughals. Portugal is still in with Spain and England through at least 1563. Ottomans, I think are still allied with Crimea and Astrakhan. Sindh is allied to that strong looking Jaunpur.

Round 5 Roster:
1. 1539-1548 Olav (done)
2. 1549-155? Lordling (CTD )
2. 1549-1558 Brian Roastbeef (done)
3. 1559- Lordling, want to try again? Dell?
4. Lordling/Dell

We still have visitors who want to try a turn?

http://www.savefile.com/files/1322567

 

[Brian Roastbeef]

Yes, I know... be patient!

No problem. I just stumbled across that yesterday, and wasn't sure if you were unaware, abandoning the site in favor of just working from here, or what...

 

[unmerged(84806)]

A great turn there! Especially for our economy. Two new refineries in just ten years; we should make quite a large sum on trade in the future. Good luck on the random events too. The bank creation one was especially good.

The CB we got from the Portugese trade embargo will surely come in handy! And I don't think it's a cheezy way of getting a CB, by the way. As you said, it is better to wait a little before we attack them, as they're currently allied to two majors that are capable of sending armies to our provinces (at least Spain). However, it was sad to see that Al Kharam and Mascate have converted to Christianity.

I would also have chosen the first option in the historical event. Nice that you put the extra diplomatic skill to use. Having the Mamluks on our side could come in handy, and a new vassal in Khiva will bring extra fortunes to us.

I was a bit worried that we had not received a conquistador yet, so it was releaving to see that you got one. Lets hope he lasts for a while, so we can explore as much as possible. If we find neutral provinces, I'm in favour of colonizing them right away, without using Trade Posts, so no one can burn them.

I'm a bit surprised to see that our BB is still quite high. Not much to do about it, though.

We still have visitors who want to try a turn?

Yes, visitors are very much welcomed to try a turn. Perhaps I should send some PMs around to members who earlier have shown interest?

 

[Brian Roastbeef]

Thanks, buddy.

Al Kharam and Mascate going Catholic isn't great, but as they were never Shiite, it isn't that bad I guess. We'll have to remember to play with our tolerance sliders if we ever do grab them though.

BB has been hard to get rid of. We only had the Diplomatic skill boost for two years. Without that our monarch's diplomacy stinks, so its pretty slow going there...

Edit: I just checked to see where we would stand if we tried to colonize down there. Chances of success are like 47%, if you kill the natives. If there's successful settlement, the population will slowly decrease. We may have a positive influx of colonists before 100 settlers manage to piss away though. It won't bring much money, but at this point, we're just claiming land, and maybe another port a little further south...

 

[unmerged(84806)]

I just checked to see where we would stand if we tried to colonize down there. Chances of success are like 47%, if you kill the natives. If there's successful settlement, the population will slowly decrease. We may have a positive influx of colonists before 100 settlers manage to piss away though. It won't bring much money, but at this point, we're just claiming land, and maybe another port a little further south...

Oh ok, maybe it's best to build TPs instead then? I must admit I haven't seen what happens in colonies with decreasing population - will the colony disappear, or will it go down to 100 population?

Good news, Dark Scipio will join in, at least for one turn.

In any case, are you going to take your turn again, or do you want to skip this round, Lordling? If so, you're on deck, Dell. Dark Scipio: If you want to, you could of course play in this round if you have time.

 

[Brian Roastbeef]

Oh ok, maybe it's best to build TPs instead then? I must admit I haven't seen what happens in colonies with decreasing population - will the colony disappear, or will it go down to 100 population?

Good news, Dark Scipio will join in, at least for one turn.

In any case, are you going to take your turn again, or do you want to skip this round, Lordling? If so, you're on deck, Dell. Dark Scipio: If you want to, you could of course play in this round if you have time.

I know it will go under 100 population. I don't know if it will fall apart entirely as I've never been in that situation without a positive influx of colonists. We'll be losing at least 2%, I think every 10 years. What happens over the long haul, maybe Yodamaster knows... It could just wane down so slowly that it stays around. How do you lose 2% of one villager, for instance?

 

[unmerged(40707)]

Even with 2% loss every decade, it is impossible to reach 0, mathematically speaking. The colony should stay in the end with only 1 inhabitant but I never faced this.

 

[Dell19]

I should be able to play tomorrow.

 

[Dell19]

Bijapur converts to Shiite although this isn't of much benefit to us as they are in the middle of India

Two gifts to Mamluks (relations 0 to 60+) although looking back this was a waste of time.

Two gifts to Sindh(-100 to 20+) as I felt we should make the most of a leader with an okay diplomatic rating.

moved 1 point towards free trade. I like to be reasonably innovative. I'm not sure about being almost fully offensive.

Discovered Mtawa 47% chance lost half of the troops and killed the natives in the battle.

land 12

Poor government policies

colonisation successful so we now have a colony. The province directly below is an Ivory province so that should be our next target.

Zimbabwe discovered, we get military access and now know all their provinces. Its a shame that our capital is not in Europe so we cannot just annex them. Their capital is a gold province and they have an Iron province.

Our relationship with sindh is now 150+

alliance expired and Mamluks offered first which I had to reject. They then rejected our offer. This took up a lot of our diplomats which was slightly irritating as I had to wait a couple of years until we could finally declare war on the Ottomans. We also had to cancel military access first.

Austrian alliance (including Venice) and Mamluk in a new alliance with Dudalkir go to war with the Ottomans.

We invite Khiva to our alliance.

Ottomans annex Dudalkir and got 20k troops for free.

Ottomans lose Morea to Venice. Austria annex Albania and Wallachia. Austria had made a separate peace with Albania first.

We reach Table. Wine.

War finally declared against Ottomans and Khazak Horde.

Mehmed is on our side of the Bosphorus although we only ended up fighting him once.

Glad we don't have the Mamluks as allies as they lose every battle including when they had 60k troops and the Ottomans had 12k. They did however end up conquering quite a few provinces as the Ottomans were beaten up by everyone else. We avoided any battles early on as I like to go for multiple sieges.

Scandal at court with Iraq, we cover it up for 25 gold. I did send a gift to Iraq and by the end of the turn our relations were at around 100.

Iraq converting Iraq and rejoin our alliance. Hopefully the conversion will be successful. Iraq never sent any troops to attack the Ottomans.

Daghestan captured. I couldn't go for our core province as the Mamluks had an army there and the support limit is 4.

Austria accept peace and pay the Ottomans 75 gold. They did seem to fail to keep any of their sieges going. This worried me at the time but they didn't move any new troops east possibly because I believe the Mamluks were blockading the Bosphorus.

Victory in Angora against newly recruited troops.

Mamluks capture Aleppo

Iveria captured

Sindh join our alliance after their alliance expired.

Ottomans offer us 90 gold. We accept. (Not really)

Angora captured.

Sindh are converting their last non Shiite province.

Syria falls to the Ottomans.

They offer 222 gold. Warscore is at +24. The Ottomans are now at war with Poland, Prussia and Denmark as well. A valid replacement for the Austrians.

Rebellion in Syria. Mamluks have conquered Crimea (Previously under Turkish control)

Kastamonu captured.

Defeat in Trabzon. Khiva and Sindh also had troops there.

Rebellion in Quatar.

Smyrna captured. We've finished exploring southern Africa.

Lost to rebels in Quater however they were defeated in the next battle.

Antalya captured.

Khiva begin another siege in Trabzon. The Ottomans are in Daghestan whilst Poland and Denmark have nearly captured Thrace.

Daghestan liberated by the Ottomans.

Taurus captured.

Agree to some Merchant demands for 150 gold and move 1 point towards Fair trade

Konya assaulted and captured. Khiva also had troops in the province so it made sense to use them.

Nuyssabin captured by the Mamluks

Denmark capture Thrace. We may need to capture Thrace at some point to get a good peace agreement.

Mamuluks accepted peace with the Ottomans. They pay 60 gold which is probably a good outcome.

Anatolya captured which was lucky as Denmark had stolen the siege a couple of times.

Manufactory gained in Kushka by event.

Lost a battle in Macedonia as I wasn't paying full attention.

Captured Trabzon by assault.

The Ottomans are at war again with the Austrian alliance.

And thats the end of 10 years.

Daghestan and Aleppo are under siege. The Ottomans have 3k troops in Tabriz and 6k troops in Macedonia although we may not be able to capture Macedonia as Denmark has a leader and stole the siege in Anatoyla several times. Not really sure what our aim from the war should be however our war score is now at +58 and there are still several Ottoman provinces left to capture. It was a pretty easy war as the Ottomans had no allies that could reach us and seemed content to fight the Mamluks instead of us. Obviously it helps that the Ottomans were fighting a war in the west as well.

On the colonial front we have one colony and have discovered all of Pagan Zimbabwe so we could potentially attack them at some point. We are still not getting colonists although the sliders can be moved again soon.

Diplomacy wise. If the Iraq conversion completes we could annex them and Sindh are also in a good position to be annexed if they convert their last Sunni province. In the future we could go to war with some of the Indian nations. We could also completely destroy the Ottomans although I think this will happen anyway. Potentially having a border with Austria could be an issue as they are on land tech 17.

Badboy is at 11.9 and inflation at 1.7 so we can afford to take probably 5 provinces off the Ottomans. I'm not keen on converting them to Shiite as I think they will still be pummelled by the European alliances. The Mamluks are useless as allies so I don't think we should invite them back into the alliance. They will only lose warscore.

http://www.savefile.com/files/1326944

 

[unmerged(84806)]

Great job against the Ottomans there. It seems that you picked the right moment to fight them. I was a bit surprised that they went for the Mamluks, but that's good news for us.

As OE is fighting a lot of other nations, we should try to capture as many provinces as we can. Is Tahmasp still alive? We could use him to steal sieges. I also agree to not converting OE yet. They will probably be in war for a long while, and thus lack the funds for converting their provinces. It's better for us to grab those provinces and convert them ourselves. However, we should be a bit careful not to take too big chunks of land from them right away, as we're the aggressors. Which provinces should we take? I propose Angora and either Trabzon or Daghestan. Perhaps Angora and Anatolya instead if we can afford it warscore wise.

Could you post a screenshot over Turkey, Dell? It would be interesting to see how the situation is at the moment.

It also seems that you had quite good luck with the random events. What kind of manufactory did we get in Kushka?

Lordling, you're up. I had expected that Dark Scipio would have signed in now - I'll wait until Monday starting the next round.

 

[Dell19]

We got a weapons factory.

I think I would like Angora and Aleppo plus probably Konya and Armenia. I think it would be worthwhile to wait a bit and see if the Ottomans offer us a peace treaty as we would get more provinces. Possibly our core province as well since it is shiite.

Tahmasp is still alive and is currently in Trabzon.

 

[Brian Roastbeef]

I'm not surprised that the Ottomans went after the Mamluks. They usually do. They were in the alliance so that they would be protected, as they are LT6 and would get their asses kicked by the Ottos in a war without our intervention. My number one priority is keep the Ottomans away from expanding around into North Africa. As it is now, they're set to be crushed between us, Austria, and Poland. If they expand, they'll be a pain in our asses the entire game.

With BB up about 12, I don't know if we should take five provinces at 2 a pop. I think 3 maximum, plus Nuyssaybin - Anatolia, Angora and Smyrna, even though we'll have an odd western border. I see nobody is in the way there now. Send Tahmasp down if there is...

 

[Herbert West]

e-lurk:

This is awesome. Sadly, as much as I'd like to play, my EU2 copy has been swallowed by the monster called "moving".

Keep up the good work!

:re-lurk:

 

[Lordling]

I'll play now, I think. If only to have the pleasure of thwacking the Ottomans.

 

[Lordling]

First things first, before I load the game, I change the settings. "Autosave: Never" becomes "Autosave: Yearly". With this done, I begin the game.

The war with the Ottoman Empire is already done - my only job is to force them to the table. I have to salute the previous player, Dell. I think beating an enemy an LT level above us, with a conscription centre would've been beyond me.

Initially, Sindh, our firm ally, asks us to declare war on the Mughal Empire. I notice the Mughals have no allies, no army, and no potential for hurting us. I bravely agree.

My intial strike is into the heart of the Ottoman Empire itself. Gathering our armies, I hurl them at Constantinople, where the enemy destroyed our previous army.

One of our generals, Saada dies. I never knew him.

However, we continue on, and overrun the Ottomans, securing all of their Asian possessions as well as Constantinople. I make a lot of peace offers.

First, the Poles make peace.

Then the Austrians.

Eventually, despite my overwhelming position, I can only get them to accept a small peace - Angora, Antolia, and Nutassybin. Or however you spell that last province. The problem was that the Ottoman Empire kept offering me deals that would've put us over our BB max. It was either everything or very little, with them.

After the peace is done, the Mughal Empire offers us 11 ducats for peace. Since I couldn't reach both their provinces (and since they were already the vassal of another nation), I agreed.

A monopoly company forms, and a gift to the state is lavished upon us. I use this money to start off conversions in Angora and Anatolia.

In 1575, the Iraqis manage to have converted both of their provinces. I quietly ask them if they want to join the Persian Empire, the secret club that only fully Shi'ite nations can join! They point out we have Sunni provinces, and politely decline. I send them an expensive personal gift - the skulls of kings who have previous opposed Persian might, and ask again.

Seeing as the Iraqis have no bottomless pit to kick my emissaries into, they reluctantly agree, and give me earth and water, tokens of their submission. As well as their provinces, which is what I was really after.

I also diplo-vassalize the Sindh, and bring Yemen into our alliance. After this, glorious King Tasmaph dies, and King Ismail II rises to the throne. Unlike the other dude of his name, however, he's not a genius. He is amused by shiny things, though.

King Ismail II, "The Easily Distracted".

Meanwhile, Austria has been warring with Poland over the spoils they got from the Ottoman Empire. Being Austria, the Austrians win.

Top on the "List of People you really, really, REALLY don't want to annoy, it's... AUSTRIA!

I then develop a state monopoly on trade in Azerbaijan.

After this, a fierce colonial uprising occurs, nearly three thousand of the three hundred settlers rising up to shake off their colonial bonds. I assume they were using ancient alien cloning technology, as none of them seemed to have died when I mercilessly butchered them all.

In 1578, we re-invite the Mamluks to our alliance. While they're not particularly useful, they make great meatshields. Sure, they only have LT 9, but when you get right down to it, we need time for us to ready our army for war in case of a surprise attack. And when you get right down to it, clambering over piles of Mamluk corpses takes time. It's win-win!

We also seem to have gotten quite the number of conversion events, and I think we only have one Shi'ite province left. Both of our Sunni provinces we took from the Ottomans converted of their own free will (after I'd spent prohibitive amounts of money starting the process, annoyingly), as well as some other Persian provinces.

A new king arises to the throne - Muhammed. As Ismail was looking out his balcony, he saw the moon. Wondering at how shiny it was, he jumped out to grab it. He neglected, however, the fact that there were ten stories until he hit the ground.

Muhammed Khudabanda, "The Mildly Likeable"

This event gave us a choice - war with the Ottomans (which included straight-up war, which I didn't want), get a free CB and stab point, or gain 8 diplo skill for 24 months. And +50 Ottoman relations. Choice 3 gave me the oppurtunity to butter up Khiva, who can be annexed (but we shouldn't, as they're still mostly Sunni).

We've got a fair whack of cash, around 500-600, I believe, so we're good to go next round. We didn't pick up that much BB (as much as we would've expected to, except we got Iraq in place of Smyrna), and Austria is now to be feared above all mortal enemies.

Diplomacy: We have, as per normal, few friends, and many enemies

Religious: We picked up a few provinces, and converted them. The Shi'ite faith just keeps on truckin'.

Trade: We have a monopoly. This gives us +1 trader a year, and more income. Let's keep it.


http://www.savefile.com/files/1328547
The savefile