I heavily considered Nasser but he is too young at game start. He really only makes sense from the mid 50's onwards.
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While I admit that he's young, he was already an Egyptian nationalist, distrusted the monarchy and was the leader of a small clique of like-minded officers. You could always just have Mohammed Naguib as the ultimate leader of the revolution, whereas Nasser is just a possible minister.
Ultimately, any such revolution would have to occur after the Middle Eastern War. Either Egypt lost, and the monarchy has been discredited or Egypt won but the Free Officers gain credibility as war-heroes.
Ah yes, so DHKR development stopped because of me! Great to know you've invested me with such time altering and work destroying powers! I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact only one or two people (by another dev's admission) are working on it, because everyone is working on the HoI4 version. Great to know too that it was my pointed, regular behavior on the forums that suddenly made development shift from an open model to one where no one has any access or input to it (besides the fact that by less, you should be saying "none"). And I really don't care if I'm rude, or if you find me abhorrent. I find what you lot are doing is abhorrent, and that you have serious communication issues, but an eye for thee, and not for me, amirite?
I think after four or five pages though, I got an answer to my question, even if no one actually bothered answered it. You're sticking with this way of development, this way of doing things, this way of not giving a crap what anyone else thinks outside of the zone, and nothing anyone says will change that. Good to know, because I'm out then. KR's been a nice part of my years, but if this is what it's come to, I don't want any part of this. It's not worth this.
Great, so you're a saint and premier role model for the children. Well I'm not. But as you say, you really don't care about things one way or another, or at least enough to raise the issue, so long as it's """"""fun"""""". And besides the fact the issue hasn't just been the Italian rework anymore, but the more fundamental issue about how KR is even developed, what KR is. But well, and I'm being serious, I wish you good luck in that, and I really do hope you have fun - you and everyone else who's going to play when 1.9 comes out "anytime soon" (i.e. hopefully before 2020). Because if you do end up thinking it's shit, you'll never be able to elicit change. They made sure of that.
You'll find yourself where I am, eventually. You all will.
I don't like the Italian changes, but that doesn't entitle me to go after the developers. You have raised some valid points in previous posts, but rigth now is a waste of time and effort from your part, and a offence for the receiving part. I know you from others threads (DVG) an I know that you really care for the project and make good and reasonable suggestions. But at the end of the day I find ridiculous to get so toxic for a product that people are doing in the free time. You can be critical with the mod, but being toxic about something that people are doing as a hobby is taking things too far
PS: and heck, DH is one of the easiest pdx games to mod, so making a sub-mod to prove your point may be an option
PS: and heck, DH is one of the easiest pdx games to mod, so making a sub-mod to prove your point may be an option
Well you got really pumped up by this IconOfEvi, but I get what you want to say. The thing is that the changes will occur, no matter what. That is one of the bigger problems. If people wouldn't like that and you still force it, than you will loose players. It is price you must pay if you take that road. I give them a chance, because the changes could be good, but the other problem what IconOfEvi said is also true. If the changes do occur and they surely will, than there will be no going back I'm sure of it. If it turns out to be a mess, than there won't be reroll. We are stuck with it. I still find the Italian rework so unplausible, that the northern Papist state is at least ten times more realistic. You think one nation is not realistic, so you switch it to three unrealistic ones.
I think 20 or so years into an alternate history need hard work and research. It is a tedious process to think out how things would have proceeded how other changes would effect it. As I said the Chinese and Russian parts are really good, but the Italian one is pure guessing. It has nothing to do with realism, just "I think it would look great". I mean why not make Venice an Austrian puppet. Even that is more realistic, than that republican mess.
But I think I have a solution for both parties. Is it possible, to just update the current version to 1.05 if it comes out and only do stuff, that is not kicking everything in the balls?
Another version could be the new content. I don't think it would be that hard, since you will need to convert the current one anyway. If the players do like the changes, than you could always delete the "base" one.
A sub-mod is also a good idea. I really miss the Greek submod. It was very good. It would be great if it would be continued.
I think 20 or so years into an alternate history need hard work and research. It is a tedious process to think out how things would have proceeded how other changes would effect it. As I said the Chinese and Russian parts are really good, but the Italian one is pure guessing. It has nothing to do with realism, just "I think it would look great". I mean why not make Venice an Austrian puppet. Even that is more realistic, than that republican mess.
But I think I have a solution for both parties. Is it possible, to just update the current version to 1.05 if it comes out and only do stuff, that is not kicking everything in the balls?
Another version could be the new content. I don't think it would be that hard, since you will need to convert the current one anyway. If the players do like the changes, than you could always delete the "base" one.
A sub-mod is also a good idea. I really miss the Greek submod. It was very good. It would be great if it would be continued.
Look, I get what you two are saying, and thanks, I do appreciate it. As far as sub-mod ideas go, well I mean it had occurred to me...but what would I offer? What would be my "point"? That's the problem - when arguing the status quo, it means not much to add by default. I mean I just may as well do my AAR and just make things for that. I don't know. There is a certain appeal. As someone on the KR said long ago about another debate on suggestions - make your own. So maybe I'll do that, if anything. We'll see.
Which one?
There were two I think, and the one that sticks with me is the pure insanity one by Pavlos.
Which one?
There were two I think, and the one that sticks with me is the pure insanity one by Pavlos.
Then don't be a part of it, if we wanted you actively involved as other members of the team have said you wouldn't have been banned from our discord for posting lewd images and acting like this. It's clear that your passionate and others have said you can always make a sub-mod or something but when you attack us like this then I'm afraid you're simply not going to be listened to anymore.
I meant the one with a lot of fantasy events like the Greco-Serbian Kingdom. They were very unrealistic, but there was joy in it. It was not plausible, but as a game, it was great.
It would be good if it was up to date with the current version.
I like realism in mods, but I also like those mods, that don't take everything so seriously and just want to give the player some fun.
It would be good if it was up to date with the current version.
I like realism in mods, but I also like those mods, that don't take everything so seriously and just want to give the player some fun.
I have a question who proposed the Italian rework i'm just curious since I know mikus proposed The China rework I just wonder what the original proposal looks like I don't know it seems that the China rework Spawned the other reworks
I don't want to derail the current conversation, but I'm kinda seeing a balance issue. In dozens of games I played in 1.8, India almost always ends up being united under Delhi. I mean, sure, they do have the significant advantage of being part of the Entente, but that's kinda the point. It's such a ridiculous advantage that anyone else barely has a chance.
The Bhartaya Commune can win if they get lucky or WWII breaks out early so the Entente can't focus their forces there. Which happens in about 5-10% of all cases. And the Princely Federation never made it. Even if they don't destroy themselves, the best they can realistically hope for is being left alone and not falling apart. But I have not had a single playthrough where they actually managed to unite all of India under them. Unless I as a player take control.
The core problem seems to be that a lot more things can go wrong than with the others, a lot of dissent can happen and also their economy is weaker (and doesn't have that much chance to grow). And while I have no problem with the fact that not everyone has an equal chance to succeed, the PF having basically zero chance is not exactly satisfying.
Maybe they could benefit from a slightly expanded event tree. Like choosing their future ally early, without formally joining their alliance. And then getting some help, some industry, some training - the same way the Bhartaya Commune does from the Internationale. It would go a long way of making the thing more interesting - and allowing Germany/Japan/Russia to be more proactive in dealing with their soon-to-be enemies. Maybe allow them to join their ally, not after they reunite India but at the beginning of WWII instead (and in return the Commune could join the Internationale). That would open up whole new fronts.
Also all of the three states could benefit from an overhaul of the starting techs. Given their independence in 1925, they should have most of the british techs of the early twenties. It seems a little weird that the Federation has absolutely no concept of Anti-Air weapons or that Delhi doesn't know how to build the most primitive cruisers.
The Bhartaya Commune can win if they get lucky or WWII breaks out early so the Entente can't focus their forces there. Which happens in about 5-10% of all cases. And the Princely Federation never made it. Even if they don't destroy themselves, the best they can realistically hope for is being left alone and not falling apart. But I have not had a single playthrough where they actually managed to unite all of India under them. Unless I as a player take control.
The core problem seems to be that a lot more things can go wrong than with the others, a lot of dissent can happen and also their economy is weaker (and doesn't have that much chance to grow). And while I have no problem with the fact that not everyone has an equal chance to succeed, the PF having basically zero chance is not exactly satisfying.
Maybe they could benefit from a slightly expanded event tree. Like choosing their future ally early, without formally joining their alliance. And then getting some help, some industry, some training - the same way the Bhartaya Commune does from the Internationale. It would go a long way of making the thing more interesting - and allowing Germany/Japan/Russia to be more proactive in dealing with their soon-to-be enemies. Maybe allow them to join their ally, not after they reunite India but at the beginning of WWII instead (and in return the Commune could join the Internationale). That would open up whole new fronts.
Also all of the three states could benefit from an overhaul of the starting techs. Given their independence in 1925, they should have most of the british techs of the early twenties. It seems a little weird that the Federation has absolutely no concept of Anti-Air weapons or that Delhi doesn't know how to build the most primitive cruisers.
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It would certainly be interesting to see a much more decentralized Italy. Since we are talking of a federation up in the north, maybe the Italy Dev could consider to add a Duchy of Venice and/or a Sardinia-Piedmont Kingdom with Papal States as Overlord. Southern Italy is a much more complex situation: while Socialism and Communism have deep roots in those regions, it was also true that the popularity of Communism shouldn't be as much strong in this AU. (Maybe have the communism government fight for its dominance).
Last but not least, while Benito Mussolini was a Socialist before WW1, a broken Italy would have motivated him even more to actually create and preach Fascism; This little thing could be used as a 'counter' to the Southern Communist government.
P.S. As a noteworthy substitute of Mussolini's National-Communists, you could have Argo Secondari's Arditi del Popolo.
Last but not least, while Benito Mussolini was a Socialist before WW1, a broken Italy would have motivated him even more to actually create and preach Fascism; This little thing could be used as a 'counter' to the Southern Communist government.
P.S. As a noteworthy substitute of Mussolini's National-Communists, you could have Argo Secondari's Arditi del Popolo.
For those interested in the Italy rework, the new progress report on the SRI is now live. feel free to ask any questions you may have
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Just a minor warning for others: the link seems to be on the HOI4 mod forums, so if you don't have HOI4 you can't see it there (obviously the reddit does not have that limitation).
I don't really raise the issue because I treat KR as a game first and foremost. I understand things change during mod development; it's called "development" for a reason. And I would be able to argue and indeed even change things about the mod if I act like a reasonable adult who argues their intentions plainly and intelligently. But apparently the devs are mean asshole children who piss on suggestions. Well, what do I do? I would do the sensible thing and not follow the mod. It's not that hard to do.
I'm not sure that there ever was an original proposal for Italy. It seemed to be born out of a series of conversations involving TheBlackWinds, ~mw~, AC, WdS, Ahearne, Strategia, DDago, and a number of others. Any one of those people might be able to correct me though.
One more thing: For the 2nd ACW, can we have a third option for Canada to seize New England and declare war on the CSA?
Is it possible for us to get a raw/rough transcript of this initial set of ideas?
If possible seeing the "pure"-ish thoughts of the devs on this would really help persuade/inform us why the reworks are both logical,necessary and plausible and would thusly help to explain to people like IconOfEvil and to some extent others such as myself exactly how the Dev team embarked upon this course of action and how they initially approached this.
If such a raw form is impossible for logistical reasons, perhaps a more clean version that nonetheless gets the same ideas across of what the dev team actually thought about, decided upon and fought about and disagree amongst themselves. That aspect can be blurred out with stuff like Dev1 or Dev2 if need be,
Because there are currently two problems from my perspective here:
- The practical problem that is the change to Italy seems to be rooted in more needless balkanisation, gameplay quibbles and plausibility quibbles.
- The problem of principal is that we feel here at this forum that this change has come out of nowhere, and that it represents a major shakeup where none was thought to be needed. China, Russia and the ACW have always seen complaints and requests for reworks major and minor, I'm not aware for many for Italy aside from that fact that both the Federation/Kingdom and RSI didn't really do much and we've seen no word on how this will change apart from the obligatory WK2 balance changes caused by the new borders. This is what I think it's clear has pissed Icon off more about, and it's the same with me (though I'm being less fiery about it). Seeing some more direct conversation not buried in the archivist's nightmare that is Discord would be helpful for those of us on this forum. Speaking for myself, I found using the KR Discord to be so confusing and found it really hard to find any old conversations.
I understanding the desires I laid out at the beginning of this post are a bit of a tall order, but it would be helpful for everyone including those not on the forums, and it would also help us engage with these reworks akin to the conversations between the KR team proper and miku and co and allow us to better understand these new changes' reasoning and thus help us to respond to them and not feel like we might be talking things that we're already discussed and resolved in terms of vision from the beginning.
I know they are different mods for a very different game with a different community, but I like Tamriel Rebuilt and High Rock 427's tradition of posting summaries of major Discord discussions on their forums (using a fair bit of 'we talked about...' so it doesn't have to point out specific modders) every now and then. It seems to help keep a good balance between internal core dev discussions using a fast platform that some people prefer, and transparency to players and potential modders that could contribute to the project.
