Kaiserreich hellenic expansion

[Mister Cvijus]

Regarding the "common" kingdom when nationalist route was taken, my thought was to have the following chain of events in short:

Nationalist revolution in Greece -> Nationalist revolution in Serbia -> Plastiras proclaims the Hellenic Empire -> Plastiras offers the incorporation of Nationalist Serbia into the Hellenic Empire while guaranteeing broad autonomy for the Serbs and even having couple of Serbs in his administartion.

Now, about the Serbian candidate for the common kingdom (not the nationalist path), I thought of Count Lujo Konstantin Vojnovic (or Vojinovic) 1864-1951. Although being a member of the Dubrovnik nobility (thus claimed by the Croats as being a Croat himself), he nevertheless descends from the Ducal dynasty Vojinovic, whose founder Vojin was a grandson of the Serbian King Stefan the Firstcrowned Nemanjic from the 13th century. The Nemanjics and Vojinivc where mixing through generations, and as the royal dynasty was related to every Byzantine dynasty until the Fall of Constantinople, hence the Vojinics were also related to the Paleiologos and Komnenos. YOu can find Lujo Konstantins picture here (5th pic in the slideshow):

http://www.tportal.hr/fotogalerija/...nly=true&TB_iframe=true&height=550&width=750#

As for the name, I prefer either the Greco-Serbian Kingdom, or the Kingdom of Greeks and Serbs.
I like the flag, but it should be more fair to put both Coats of Arms in the middle (simir to the Austrian-Hungarian flag). Also, for a better historicity, it would be better to use the following Coats of Arms for Serbia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Royal_Coat_of_arms_of_Serbia_(1882–1918).svg

As for the variances of the Balkan Federation in any form, how about using the flag of Rigas Ferraios (which he intended to be the flag of a pan-Balkan state)?:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Rigas_Feraios.svg

 

[unmerged(416312)]

Regarding the "common" kingdom when nationalist route was taken, my thought was to have the following chain of events in short:

Nationalist revolution in Greece -> Nationalist revolution in Serbia -> Plastiras proclaims the Hellenic Empire -> Plastiras offers the incorporation of Nationalist Serbia into the Hellenic Empire while guaranteeing broad autonomy for the Serbs and even having couple of Serbs in his administartion.

Now, about the Serbian candidate for the common kingdom (not the nationalist path), I thought of Count Lujo Konstantin Vojnovic (or Vojinovic) 1864-1951. Although being a member of the Dubrovnik nobility (thus claimed by the Croats as being a Croat himself), he nevertheless descends from the Ducal dynasty Vojinovic, whose founder Vojin was a grandson of the Serbian King Stefan the Firstcrowned Nemanjic from the 13th century. The Nemanjics and Vojinivc where mixing through generations, and as the royal dynasty was related to every Byzantine dynasty until the Fall of Constantinople, hence the Vojinics were also related to the Paleiologos and Komnenos. YOu can find Lujo Konstantins picture here (5th pic in the slideshow):

http://www.tportal.hr/fotogalerija/...nly=true&TB_iframe=true&height=550&width=750#

As for the name, I prefer either the Greco-Serbian Kingdom, or the Kingdom of Greeks and Serbs.
I like the flag, but it should be more fair to put both Coats of Arms in the middle (simir to the Austrian-Hungarian flag). Also, for a better historicity, it would be better to use the following Coats of Arms for Serbia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Royal_Coat_of_arms_of_Serbia_(1882–1918).svg

As for the variances of the Balkan Federation in any form, how about using the flag of Rigas Ferraios (which he intended to be the flag of a pan-Balkan state)?:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Rigas_Feraios.svg

for the nationalist route, i will make an event if Greece turns nationalistic and chooses expansionist policy it will be able to fire the revolution in Serbia .then if Greece changes to Byzantine or Hellenic Empire(it can stay as nationalist Greece) when the time comes to invade the rest Balkans it will have an option to unite with the Serbian nationalists, otherwise war.

Lujo Konstantins is good for the job, so the canditakes for the throne of the Greco-Serbian Kingdom (this will be the name) will be 1)Constantin Cantacuzino 2)Lujo Konstantins and 3)Stilianos Pattakos
but i have one small problem, i cant copy the pics from the site and i cant find any pictures of him on google


the flag of rigas ferraios is already used (at least someone in the flag requests forum makes it) from the libelar party of the Balkan orthodox federation if they get ellected, and was proposed before the colors of both the greeks and serbians were choosen
-----------------------------------

EDIT = for the flag (i have made a mistake and read the "coat" as croat", sorry .) i think the flag is kinda fair, the greeks got their flag and the serbians their coat of arms, maybe i can put the greek crone on the top of the serbian coat, i will make it and see how it looks

 

[Mister Cvijus]

You've got the point of my idea Nationalist Serbia joining the Hellenic Empire. The Serbian AI should have let's say 80% chance of joining.

I am glad you agree with my idea of Lujo Konstantin. However, I would rather use his second name (Constantine) as his regal. For the picture you can make a print screen. I think the his pic on the right (NOT the one with the hat in the double pic) is more suitable regarding his age at the time.

Of course we are not friends with the Croats, where did you get that idea? Many Serb nobles while fleeing the Turks found shelter in Dubrovnik and remained there. Some were Catholicized but retained their Serb identity. Not to worry about Lujo, he was Orthodox, although baptized in both confessions as it was the common practice of Serbs in Dubrovnik.

As for the flag of the Greco-Serbian Kingdom, how about having simply a blue cross on a white background, given that we are talking of a Union based on religion?

 

[qwertyuiop2]

1)the symbol is ancient greek, it was later used by golden dawn
2)none of this flag will be used as they are out from the atmosphere of the era

1) So what? Use of such a symbol in a national flag defined for fascist gov is clearly a nazist one and an anachronism as well.
2) Alright, it appears you got my previous point.

 

[unmerged(416312)]

You've got the point of my idea Nationalist Serbia joining the Hellenic Empire. The Serbian AI should have let's say 80% chance of joining.

I am glad you agree with my idea of Lujo Konstantin. However, I would rather use his second name (Constantine) as his regal. For the picture you can make a print screen. I think the his pic on the right (NOT the one with the hat in the double pic) is more suitable regarding his age at the time.

Of course we are not friends with the Croats, where did you get that idea? Many Serb nobles while fleeing the Turks found shelter in Dubrovnik and remained there. Some were Catholicized but retained their Serb identity. Not to worry about Lujo, he was Orthodox, although baptized in both confessions as it was the common practice of Serbs in Dubrovnik.

As for the flag of the Greco-Serbian Kingdom, how about having simply a blue cross on a white background, given that we are talking of a Union based on religion?

sorry for the croats, i mistakely read "croat" instead of "coat" , i have put an edit to my original post. the white flag with the greek cross is also a greek emblem, since the crowns on the coat of arms in both of our countries is the same, shall i put it on the middle?its a kingdom, it must have a crown on the flag

 

[unmerged(416312)]

here is the flag i made
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?wicsw53gz7h9636

do u prefer this
1) http://www.mediafire.com/view/?wicsw53gz7h9636

or this
2)http://www.mediafire.com/view/?f442rdzd3gpt416

 

[qwertyuiop2]

The one with the crown only.

 

[Deus Eversor]

the one with serbian shield, the one with crown only looks like a finnish flag

 

[unmerged(416312)]

The one with the crown only.

the one with serbian shield, the one with crown only looks like a finnish flag

so the score is 1-1, i havent decided yet, also the white-blue flag was used in the 1821 greek war of independence

 

[Ticket Cookie]

the one with serbian shield, the one with crown only looks like a finnish flag

The same!

 

[unmerged(416312)]

made a new flag and i think is the best to be used http://www.mediafire.com/view/?vcgx22tlm31b0kk

 

[jamiroquai000]

1) So what? Use of such a symbol in a national flag defined for fascist gov is clearly a nazist one and an anachronism as well.
2) Alright, it appears you got my previous point.

Learn history first and then commented Μικρε (kid)....

 

[Deus Eversor]

made a new flag and i think is the best to be used http://www.mediafire.com/view/?vcgx22tlm31b0kk

don't greeks have a patron or other symbol? if not, then the flag background should be different, perhaps byzantic flag as background, or byzantic flag as the greek shield? otherwise, having greek background and greek coat of arms doubling the symbol would seem as dominating, not the thing i think would the unification movement want...
also, both crowns look the simmilar, so i dont see any reason why there should be two crowns... after all its one kingdom, one religion, two nationalities => so one crown, one background, two coats of arms/shields

 

[unmerged(416312)]

don't greeks have a patron or other symbol? if not, then the flag background should be different, perhaps byzantic flag as background, or byzantic flag as the greek shield? otherwise, having greek background and greek coat of arms doubling the symbol would seem as dominating, not the thing i think would the unification movement want...
also, both crowns look the simmilar, so i dont see any reason why there should be two crowns... after all its one kingdom, one religion, two nationalities => so one crown, one background, two coats of arms/shields

i though to make the two top squares red(serbian color) but it looked very ugly, i think is good, the white cross stands for orthodoxy and white is national color of both greece and serbia, the dark blue is also a serbian color, the crowns are part of both countries coats of arrms, and if i cut them it would be very strange but also a crown in the middle with two coats of arms would be ugly


Mister Cvijus ,how much do u think should be the ai chance for the ai to accept to form the kingdom?

 

[Deus Eversor]

how about those i just made?

srbgre1

srbgre2

 

[Mister Cvijus]

Pavlo, I think that the AI for Serbia joining Greece in a common Kingdom should be 80%. The (a)historical circumstances of Kaiserreich justify this by Croats and co. betraying Serbs by being the Austrian puppets and the mistreatment of the Serbian people in the relevant territories (which can also be portrayed by events similar to the treatment of Greeks by the Bulgarians in Macedonia). For Serbs uniting with their orthodox Greek brothers and having their claims incorporated in the joint state would be more than acceptable for them, as well as in real life nowadays. If you want I can write the event text.

Here my question would be: As the Kingdom is choosing a new ruler (Pattakos, Kantakouzeinos or Vojinovic), there should be an incentive for both the reigning Kings George II of Greece and Alexander I of Serbia to accept the union by not loosing their priviledged positions. Instead of a kingdom, why don't we talk of a Greco-Serbian EMPIRE? Modelled after the German model where there was one emperor, four kings, etc. What do you think about that?

As far as the flags are concerned, it is hard to say whether I like more the one you made with both coats of arms and the backgroung of the Greek flag, the white background-blue cross-crown, or the second (with the white background) of Deus Eversor. Although in the case of Deus Eversor I would replace the right coat of arms with the actual Greek. In that case, that flag would retain both national orthodox symbols (the double-headed eagle), both coats of arms, the crown and white symbolizing the purity of Orthodoxy.

 

[Deus Eversor]

Although in the case of Deus Eversor I would replace the right coat of arms with the actual Greek. In that case, that flag would retain both national orthodox symbols (the double-headed eagle), both coats of arms, the crown and white symbolizing the purity of Orthodoxy.

like this?

Here my question would be: As the Kingdom is choosing a new ruler (Pattakos, Kantakouzeinos or Vojinovic), there should be an incentive for both the reigning Kings George II of Greece and Alexander I of Serbia to accept the union by not loosing their priviledged positions. Instead of a kingdom, why don't we talk of a Greco-Serbian EMPIRE? Modelled after the German model where there was one emperor, four kings, etc. What do you think about that?

i approve of this idea, since so many entities lie by XXcentury in the territories considered bizantic, making a simmilar creation as in germany would be good. Since german influences are so strong in KR and since it's ITTL the most succesful Roman Empire immitation... why not?

 

[Mister Cvijus]

like this?

Exactly!!!

 

[Deus Eversor]

ok, i hope noone kills me for spamming images... but for cool stuff to unfold, here's a gif

 

[unmerged(416312)]

Pavlo, I think that the AI for Serbia joining Greece in a common Kingdom should be 80%. The (a)historical circumstances of Kaiserreich justify this by Croats and co. betraying Serbs by being the Austrian puppets and the mistreatment of the Serbian people in the relevant territories (which can also be portrayed by events similar to the treatment of Greeks by the Bulgarians in Macedonia). For Serbs uniting with their orthodox Greek brothers and having their claims incorporated in the joint state would be more than acceptable for them, as well as in real life nowadays. If you want I can write the event text.

Here my question would be: As the Kingdom is choosing a new ruler (Pattakos, Kantakouzeinos or Vojinovic), there should be an incentive for both the reigning Kings George II of Greece and Alexander I of Serbia to accept the union by not loosing their priviledged positions. Instead of a kingdom, why don't we talk of a Greco-Serbian EMPIRE? Modelled after the German model where there was one emperor, four kings, etc. What do you think about that?

As far as the flags are concerned, it is hard to say whether I like more the one you made with both coats of arms and the backgroung of the Greek flag, the white background-blue cross-crown, or the second (with the white background) of Deus Eversor. Although in the case of Deus Eversor I would replace the right coat of arms with the actual Greek. In that case, that flag would retain both national orthodox symbols (the double-headed eagle), both coats of arms, the crown and white symbolizing the purity of Orthodoxy.

after i make the event chains i will inform u if i need texts, thanks, i am not very good with them

yeah i think that both kings should have power in the state. i have a new idea, at the beggining it will be a kingdom and after u capture bulgaria ,anatolia and albania u can form the Greco-Serbian Empire or Byzantine Empire and then move norther and east or west. in germany each of the kings had their own area to rule like bavaria?

for the flags i think i will use the one with the greek flag with serbian colors and both coat of arms for the kingdom and if u turn to empire u will use the one Deus Everson made, by the way thanks a lot ,u did a magnificent work!:happy:

the komitatzides (bulgarian paramillitary units with the goal to exterminate the macedonians, greeks) killed serbians too?i made an event where u punish them and i want to add it in the text

now i have a lot of work to do, better i start coding