Kaiserreich: Die Volle Geschichte?

[Amun Nefer]

So I was thinking, and you guys have probably already come up with this as a somewhat far-off idea, but what about making the full K-Reich story into a mod or another campaign option? I think with Darkest Hour, there is a good deal of potential for something like this. The timespan would be what, 1914 - 1964 (preferably 1911-1964)? Now either you can get rid of the time limitations yourselves or wait till it's an option is available to deal with that, but on to other things.

Well you guys already set up the back story for each nation which should give a somewhat eventful interbellum. So someone plays through as Germany (or the AI does) and eases up on the Unrestricted Sub Warfare (which would be an event that has say an 80-90 % chance of the AI picking to stop with the mod, and if the option to stop is not picked, the events don't fire and it is just like any old game of DH) and the Kaiserreich events start up. The US doesn't enter the War, Germany gains the upper hand and then the world goes through events that mold the world into how it looks in 1936.

So first, for simplicity's sake, you could have the events leading up to 1936 be scripted single choice events. AT FIRST. This is just to show the story play out if the player likes that. The reason why you shouldn't have real choice yet is then you would need to rework many of the event chains and create new ones for these derivations from the story as it is. As time goes on of course you can start having more choices and new events and event chains put in that can allow for even more derivations and eventually a completely different world for 1936.

It would be a lot of time and work of course, and would need more research for these derivations from the original story that you're going to have, but it would, in my opinion, help complete the mod, and turn it into a true masterpiece (maybe even its own game one day, eh?

What do people think? I'm sure there're holes and mess-ups in this as I am partly asleep. Also, what do you dev guys think? I think it's a real challenge that would probably help cement K-reich as HoI2's premiere mod.

 

[unmerged(228617)]

Not to be a negative Nancy but we're stretched enough as it is and a project that massive would essentially destroy everything that is used event wise in Kaiserreich. Unless I start seeing a nice fat paycheck, I doubt anyone would want to try that.

Sorry

 

[Amun Nefer]

Yeah, was just thinking it would be something nice for the future as a completion of the whole thing. Yeah, for events you would need like several thousand and to rework most and add a lot more. You mean made into its own game that is sold through P'dox ('cause I'm not sure how you getting paid would affect our desire for such a thing, no offence )? That would be kinda neat if you guys were able to keep up quality.

 

[unmerged(228617)]

I meant everyone on the mod team getting paid, not just me. Regardless this would be too huge for us, sorry.

 

[Mrdie]

Just to do a 1911-1964 historically accurate game would be a huge undertaking, especially since there are a lot of possible divergences from history from 1911-1921 alone which could put everything off balance and "break" events. Now imagine doing 53 years of Kaiserreich, especially since Kaiserreich is an events-heavy game which has already been around since 2005 and still has plenty of work to be done.

 

[Amun Nefer]

It'll be possible one day when you guys start getting paid then and expand your team, darn it. (also if there is some way to make events more quickly)

 

[Mrdie]

Making events more quickly (I don't see it being hard myself) isn't really the issue, it's joining events together and tweaking them to fire rationally (e.g. no "X country gets supplies from Y country... even though Y doesn't actually exist") and to also encompass divergences that is the issue.

For instance let's say that Germany loses World War I to Russia. What if the Bolsheviks never take power? Well, there goes history! But what if France and Britain do go syndicalist shortly after? What if only one does? What if Italy stays united? What if Sun Yat-sen's forces emerge triumphant with heavy US backing? And all this before 1925. Let's not mention the Balkans.

 

[Amun Nefer]

Indeed, which is why I said it would be a great challenge (huge one). People aren't expecting you to FULLY account for everything, just account for quite a bit. Maybe as Rainbow said, if P'dox was paying them they could make a super-comprehensive game. Also for the Germany losing part, I said that you should not have the K-Reich mod activate. Isn't the thing with Russia as well as Britain and France what happened in the K-Reich timeline (Bolsheviks failing and Syndicalists taking control in Britain and France), or do you mean with Germany fialing?

If they could get it done it would be the best HoI2-based game ever. (should be sold for 20 USD imo if it has everything)

 

[unmerged(228617)]

To go on with what Mrdie is going on about, Kaiserreich would have to redesign almost event chain and have to *SO* many more to cover the potential divergences. Not only that but it wouldn't be Kaiserreich anymore... It'd be like 'The fucking crazy Great War mod'

 

[Amun Nefer]

Ya, I said that in the OP, but it would only activate based on the original diversion point during the War where the Huns stopped the USW. It would probably take you guys a few years to develop though admittedly.

Well... If you feel you wouldn't be up for the challenge even with P'dox's financial backing, I guess we, the fans, can understand (now if this were real life with women around, you would have to accept that challenge).

 

[Battle bunny]

This whole idea reminds me of AGCEEP in EUII. The creators of the AGCEEP labored long and hard to create nice event chains for the period of 1419-1819, and that was also the reason why I loved playing it. Still, in most games, it was clear that after even one century, event chains were falling apart as unpredictability kicked in, and eventually, very few of the major events went by as they should have. I prefer the 1936 version with a good event chain to a potential 1911 version with an event chain that would come apart after 10-20 years.

What I really want of KR, other than to fix the mistakes present in the current version, is to plan for after WWII. Currently, the game generally turns into all-out war at the 1940 mark, and if any single side wins, they will have ~20 more years of hegemony ahead of them. Some scenarios should be accounted for, methinks (if the Commune wins, perhaps the moderates and the hardliner Totalists would split and have their own showdowns? Should Germany win, its sphere of influence might try to break out before it's too late - Eastern Europe, the colonies including Mittelafrika even.).

 

[Amun Nefer]

Well there is a huge difference between 400 years and 50 years now isn't there? It's not so much a matter of would, could, possibly, but that is why you try and account for different possibilities, and maybe get help from the community in coming up with such possibilties.

All I am seeing is people saying "oh my, it is too hard." So it seems to me like there is a good deal of quitter mentality. Come on people, if you're not willing to at least try and break new ground that how are we supposed to have innovation? If people didn't try to do big things just because they felt they were too hard or nearly impossible imagine how the world would be.

 

[Mrdie]

Most of Kaiserreich's events seem to encompass 1936-1941. That's 5 years.

That's a fair bit different from 53 years.

Don't forget the sheer amount of updating as well. Ministers in 1911 are going to be entirely different from ministers in 1940, and you'd need sleep events for all of them (sans a few strong-willed 70 and 80 year-olds.)

 

[unmerged(228617)]

Amun, I most certainly am not being a quitter, I am being a realist. To be blunt, it simply is beyond the capability of the Kaiserreich team. “Keep your feet on the ground and your eyes on the Heavens” is indeed a nice thing to follow but KR's feet are still on the ground. And not from some negative thinking, but because we aren't not a company.

If you have suggestions for KR within it's current time frame, great, but continuing this conversation is going to be a waste of time since it simply won't happen.

 

[Battle bunny]

Well there is a huge difference between 400 years and 50 years now isn't there?

Not really, considering EUII's ticks are days and HoI2's ticks are hours. Regarding game time, they are quite comparable to each other. I'm sure, in fact, that 50 years in HoI would be much longer because of certain factors, like lag, and the need to pay attention to much more factors in war (in EUII you just send soldiers marching to their target provinces - it is much less strategic).

All I am seeing is people saying "oh my, it is too hard." So it seems to me like there is a good deal of quitter mentality. Come on people, if you're not willing to at least try and break new ground that how are we supposed to have innovation?

Then again, you're not a part of the developmental team. It takes a modder to know how hard it is to write lots of events, try to come up with a way to make all the event chains coherent, test them in practice, test them again for other scenarios, and so on. I'm not a modder myself, but I've recently started studying programming so I at least have an idea how hard it could be (writing events is pretty much like programming). Also, a KR mod that would encompass 50 years is not really an innovation, it's just a damn hard project without enough motivation and potential reward (as I said, upgrading the current version would be easier, and it would result in a truly quality product, while your idea would probably result in... well, EUII.

 

[Amun Nefer]

Well I think that some point in the future when the K-Reich team does have the resources and possibly becomes a company (like I said in Post 10), maybe they will try to undertake such a task (I would reccomend they get help from the community as well). We'll see what the future holds.

 

[unmerged(174159)]

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	name = "People Want a 50 Year KR Scenario"
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[Amun Nefer]

Now that is just rude.