Exactly. And additionally in-game Italy and her allies will have radar coverage for most of the Med which they did not have in reality.
Just want to confirm that carriers can be neutralized by land-based fighers
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If I understand how this work, then it it not possible to protect land-based NAVs from Carrier fighers when they (the NAVs) enter naval combat to bomb the fleet?
And if I use my BB fleet then I should make sure I have Air superiority to avoid getting bombed too bad by Carrier NAVs?
And if I use my BB fleet then I should make sure I have Air superiority to avoid getting bombed too bad by Carrier NAVs?
If I am understanding this correctly:
-Outside of Naval combat, land based NAV bombers are only countered by the AA of the ship they target, and any carrier based fighters play no role
-Within Naval combat, Air superiority neutralizes carrier based NAV, but does nothing to protect land-based NAV bombers from Carrier fighters.
If all of this is true, it seems like if you are fighting a carrier-heavy opponent in coastal waters, you should either: Go heavy on NAVs and keep your fleet away, or go heavy on Fighters, bring a surface fleet and no NAVs.
What a mess.
-Outside of Naval combat, land based NAV bombers are only countered by the AA of the ship they target, and any carrier based fighters play no role
-Within Naval combat, Air superiority neutralizes carrier based NAV, but does nothing to protect land-based NAV bombers from Carrier fighters.
If all of this is true, it seems like if you are fighting a carrier-heavy opponent in coastal waters, you should either: Go heavy on NAVs and keep your fleet away, or go heavy on Fighters, bring a surface fleet and no NAVs.
What a mess.
Not quite. Carrier based fighters do shoot them down (and sometimes alot of them), but they don't disrupt them ( lower the damage the bombers do ). Land based fighters however on either side don't interfere.
Yeah, the Air-Air fights within two Carrier groups also is unaffected by Air Superiority.
Air-air fights within two Carrier groups is affected by nothing in fact afaik. You can put 1k fighters on a carrier and they will shoot down enemy carrier planes without any penalty.
Have you tested this recently?
I'm 95% sure last time I tested this overcrowding penalty reduced their efficiency to 0% and they all got slaughtered if you go that much over capacity, but it was a long time ago.
I'm also pretty sure that if it worked there would be alot more rules in MP games forbidding it, don't you think?
I tested it a while ago but it was in the latest patch. Our group bans carrier overcrowding ever since. I'll test again to make sure it's still the case.
What is the best way to kill a carrier? It occurs to me that I've never lost one (though I build them rarely and usually keep them on home defense fleets), and I can't recall killing one though Naval combat generally allows you to be utterly unaware of how well you're doing.
Battlecruisers accompanied by your own carriers (to provide air superiority) can take out an unmodified carrier. And if they're a level higher, Heavy Cruisers have the speed to keep pace with the carriers. Battleships are too slow.
Out of all the challenges that characterizes the battle for the Mediterranean, carriers are pretty small on that scale. Sure they can make an impact but when it comes to the med ships and land based aviation craft dominate those waters. As an Italian player you ultimately need to snag all the islands within the med to wrest control of the airbases from the allies and thus give you more elbow room to rule the skies above the seas as navally your already at a disadvantage given the shear size the allied naval forces are. but if its for Singleplayer purposes then there really is no bother you can just take the Suez and Gibraltar with very little opposition and in turn shut off the med and do whatever you want at that point.
In multiplayer games its rather difficult for Italy as a whole, players often dump a good amount of assets into the Mediterranean and for good reason as to keep Italian player gated off while maintaining their key trade routes. Obviously for you as Italy thats bad as you being the most industrially inept country within the game (next to France when they lose the mainland) you can't build enough or compensate enough to counter everything the allies throw at you. If you invest in your ships your army and airforce are hindered and vice versa for your other branches. Sure you can take other countries to alleviate the burden but often there are rules that limit when you can take those territories and how much you can take for balance and for the benefit of your team as a whole.
In multiplayer games its rather difficult for Italy as a whole, players often dump a good amount of assets into the Mediterranean and for good reason as to keep Italian player gated off while maintaining their key trade routes. Obviously for you as Italy thats bad as you being the most industrially inept country within the game (next to France when they lose the mainland) you can't build enough or compensate enough to counter everything the allies throw at you. If you invest in your ships your army and airforce are hindered and vice versa for your other branches. Sure you can take other countries to alleviate the burden but often there are rules that limit when you can take those territories and how much you can take for balance and for the benefit of your team as a whole.
You really don't need to do anything in SP with your navy if you just want to hold on Africa.
Just tested this again. Still the case. 1k fighters on 1x carrier 2 trades 1 to 2 against around 500 fighters on 4x carrier 4 with deck 5.
Yeah. I ran some tests as well now. Seems you are right, but I'm not 100% convinced it always worked like that since 1.0 or if it's a bug that has sneaked in later on.
Hopefully PDX gets around to fixing it whenever they get around to improving the Naval side of things.
in 1.0(and early versions):
carriers resupplied in battles. so it was attrition war till one side run out of planes.
also agility and speed were not considered in naval battle and CV CAS/CV NAV traded 1:1 against CV FTR
numerical superiority had much lower impact too.
overcrowding mattered when it come to attacking ships so people doesn't overcrowd supermuch
I've done tests and there was even discussion in bug section which resulted in removing resupplying carriers during battles as minimal partial solution easy to do.
I haven't tracked naval aerial combat also had break in playing hoi4 so i have no idea when it changed. i think it could be around some rewriting in air code.
carriers resupplied in battles. so it was attrition war till one side run out of planes.
also agility and speed were not considered in naval battle and CV CAS/CV NAV traded 1:1 against CV FTR
numerical superiority had much lower impact too.
overcrowding mattered when it come to attacking ships so people doesn't overcrowd supermuch
I've done tests and there was even discussion in bug section which resulted in removing resupplying carriers during battles as minimal partial solution easy to do.
I haven't tracked naval aerial combat also had break in playing hoi4 so i have no idea when it changed. i think it could be around some rewriting in air code.
That is disappointing. I really thought this had been changed.
I guess we'll need to update the house rules tomorrow. Not that I think anyone was really doing this, but we should get it in writing anyway.