Just me or SRM completely suboptimal?

[Rusky]

Melee is really the only one that will mess with you sense it bypasses the Evasion Pips.
Being flanked or Death from Above should not trouble you 2 much so long as you have Jets on your mech, keep moving to get those evasion pips and avoid getting surrounded.

 

[gruntmaster1]

Regarding head hits, a dev has mentioned that only the first shot of a salvo (SRM, LRM and MG) has a chance to hit the head, the rest is 0 %.

 

[KDubya]

Regarding head hits, a dev has mentioned that only the first shot of a salvo (SRM, LRM and MG) has a chance to hit the head, the rest is 0 %.

Incorrect.

LRMs only check once per salvo - LRM 20 checks once, LRM 5 checks once. The rest of the missiles then cluster around the initial impact location.

SRMs and MG check per "shot" so a SRM6 has six independent rolls for location with no clustering, and a MG has five independent rolls for location with no clustering.

There is a limit to one pilot injury per attack sequence. So if one alpha strike hits a head and blows up both side torsos you only get one injury not three. If you hit the head ten times with mass machineguns you only cause one injury, the damage adds up though. A knockdown gets you another injury.

 

[Edmon]

LRM's are the best weapon in the game [Single Player], I wrote a guide as to why here:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/guide-lrlolrms-single-player.1093362/

SRM's are the same idea, but their short range makes them far less flexible. I don't use them at all. However that said, they are better than LRM's in tight engagements on fast/JJ mechs who can dictate engagement ranges.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

It has been a decade or so since I played the table top game, but from what I remember each SRM hit is resolved seperately, which means that you have an overall higher chance for headshots and critical hits. So SRM should be quite good for combat against lightly armored mechs or close range rear attacks, while not being as range limited as regular MGs.

And from what I have seen in my past few skirmishes, rear attacks are really, really nasty. I am currently experimenting with a modified Firestarter that has 6 MGs, 6 Jumps and max armor - so far it has obliterated the skirmish AI quite reliably, despite my lack of deeper understanding of the changes to the rulset.

 

[Lord of Riva]

I am currently experimenting with a modified Firestarter that has 6 MGs, 6 Jumps and max armor - so far it has obliterated the skirmish AI quite reliably, despite my lack of deeper understanding of the changes to the rulset.

Its Amazing a DFA can one shot an Assault. I am using that for a while its as amazing as a really fast scout can get.

 

[CobraCommander]

If you want damage - go lazers and AC that spreads the damage *much* less. drills through armor and components much, much better.

If you want stab dmg close range, go big ACs.

If you you want to be able to fire while being more than just face to face with a mech - dont go SRMS still, along with the above drawbacks on top.

If you want to sandpaper armor for some reason, or go for an armor destruction high score - go SRM.

Sure there's more chances of rng component/gear crits, but is that really worth sacrificing the ability to punch straight through mechs with 50dmg - 100dmg single component hits, while doing almost no damage to anything in paticular? You're spending much need turns looking for crits and knockdowns, meanwhile the mechs mid - late will start pilin


Missiles seem really weak, am i missing something? Lucky LRM has such long range and indirect fire, what do SRMS have?

In MWO this is balanced because you have to actually aim, so there was no guarantee of lazer and AC dmg hitting single components, but here i.e an ac/20 is 100 dmg on a single component, every time it hits. And is decent range.

I have an ac/20 and a med lazer or 2 on my main 2 frontline mechs, with SRM just to fill the gaps, that have mostly missile hardpoints and not so much ac/lazer hardpoints (hello centurion), and im trying hard to find an excuse not to slap an ac20 on my 3rd front mech and run basically the same setup with all 3 at the front.

Halp.

(And if it wasn't ac/20 specifically, it'd be other ac and lazers in general.)

P.S Long range missiles are great - a Centurion with a PPC, LRM20 and 2 tons of ammo ftw!

I "sandpaper" not armor but go for internal structure:
The AC20 or concentrated PPC opens up breaches in the armor e.g. side torse. It would be a game of chance to try and hit that exactly again, and even if you hit, overkill on top. I use multi-targeting most of my people have to shoot the 15-20 beefed up SRMs I have divided through my lance at the victim. I can stop when the job is done, not wasting much heat or damage output. Even if it doesn´t work like this it often brings a knockdown as a bonus, letting me finish the job with an aimed salvo or two the following turn.
That is what I call specializing.

 

[CobraCommander]

Its Amazing a DFA can one shot an Assault. I am using that for a while its as amazing as a really fast scout can get.

No... it`s using the weak point every Mech had in the game. Early BT: 9 points of armor, 3 internal structure, not more, regardless of weight class. DFA has high probabilities to hit the head. That`s well represented. It is further strenghtened by the initiative system of this game. In classic BT, lights would not go first automatically and in context, pilots being competent enough for that kind of action would not be assigned to light Mechs in most units, as this is basically a suicide attack if surrounded by the enemy. So the chances to make it to striking distance and pull it off were much lower.
Put that kind of cockpit armor were the real reasons the reintroduced Gauss Rifle and Clan ER PPC and ER Large Laser were so respected... headshot-kill-potential as soon as there is line of sight.

 

[Lord of Riva]

Well its surely amazing in this game.

The real issue is that the AI mostly ignores high evade lights in favor of the heavier but slower targets. which means you can run around killing them From behind one after another.

 

[Holy.Death]

SRM is good as a filler weapon - you get that knockdown potential, while having to pay less for it in terms of tonnage. In terms of distance SRM synergizes very well with a few medium lasers. It's perfect for mechs that are designed to close in on the enemy.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

[...] So the chances to make it to striking distance and pull it off were much lower.
Put that kind of cockpit armor were the real reasons the reintroduced Gauss Rifle and Clan ER PPC and ER Large Laser were so respected... headshot-kill-potential as soon as there is line of sight.

Oh yes, I remember how my brother managed to one-shot one of my mechs with a (regular) PPC-carrying VTOL unit during the first turn of a game, and then was able to damage two more mechs during my advance. Next game he had 3 choppers, while I brought two dedicated long range AA tanks... Ah, it was a fun arms race.

 

[gruntmaster1]

Incorrect.

LRMs only check once per salvo - LRM 20 checks once, LRM 5 checks once. The rest of the missiles then cluster around the initial impact location.

SRMs and MG check per "shot" so a SRM6 has six independent rolls for location with no clustering, and a MG has five independent rolls for location with no clustering.

There is a limit to one pilot injury per attack sequence. So if one alpha strike hits a head and blows up both side torsos you only get one injury not three. If you hit the head ten times with mass machineguns you only cause one injury, the damage adds up though. A knockdown gets you another injury.

Not sure what you're basing this on, but according to this post by HBS_Adarael: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?goto/post&id=24154215#post-24154215 only the first shot of any weapon can hit the head.

 

[Harmattan Assassin]

Energy weapons and AC's are what you use to open holes, but sooner or later you'll run out of Precise Shot charges and need to finish someone off who has weak armor in a couple places but full armor everywhere else - SRMs (and LRMs) are great at finding these without using a called shot.

SRMs and LRMs are also great at getting head hits to injury enemy pilots, and scoring knockdowns via stabilization damage (4 pilot injuries is almost always enough to kill the enemy pilot). Also, when your hit chances are low (sub 50%), remember that missiles role their hit chance for each missile. An SRM6 has 6 chances to hit, your AC has one.

Every weapon in the game has its role and its uses (personally I think they do need to shave a bit of heat off the LL and PPC, and perhaps reduce stability damage a bit), a well rounded lance (one that's great in many conditions not just one) will employ a good mix of weapon types to always have the right weapon for the job at hand.

 

[Whiskiz]

2 things which helps the SRM cause, to be more than just salvage/crit/knockdown gimmick at the expense of all the drawbacks mentioned, is the already aforementioned SRM dmg/stab upgrades adding to each missile but also - when you call target....

Calling target, with call support bonus from the pilot tree is pretty great for SRM/LRM - directing the technically higher dmg that's usually sandblasted across an entire mech, to being able to direct the majority of it is pretty cool. It seems that SRMs get better later, but don't start off all that strong.

It helps i've also gone deep in the Gunnery pilot trees for all pilots, too, giving a +20% accuracy bonus for them being such close range.

So maybe with upgrades stacking per missile and called shots directing them all, they're good, but other than that.

You don't have the weapon upgrades and the normal call shot bar in multiplayer too - i wonder if there is data onw how useful weapons are and if that data shows SRM are less effective in multiplayer...

 

[Acehilator]

We must be playing different games, lol.

SRMs are tied for best weapon in the game with the ML (less efficient, but stability damage). Gauss is great too, but not sure if you can get more than one. Might be able to substitute a ++ AC20 with +damage and/or +stability damage, haven't tried it yet. LRMs get an honourable mention for great range, good stability damage and only weapon with indirect fire. Another nod to SLs for ultra high efficiency and buffing melee attacks. All other weapons are just unneccesary. Award for worst weapon in the game goes to the LL, I guess.

 

[Grieferbastard]

SRMs are strong as a booster to assaults and as primaries on mediums due to damage/ton.

Heavies are usually better off with boated ballistics or LRMs and a couple of mediums.

Lights can do well with SRMs because backshots.

 

[Wanderer2142]

With regards to the tonnage argument, I would posit that really only matters if you have the hardpoints to actually use on another significant weapon that complements your build, like an AC/10 or an AC/20.

E.g. Orion 1V only has 3 missile hardpoints. I'd rather put in 2x LRM 15s and an LRM 20 (which, if we consider base values, that's maximum of 200 damage) instead of 3x SRM6 (which is a maximum of 144). I built an Orion this way while still adding a few tons of armor on top.

I agree on the lighter mechs where tonnage is an important factor that SRMs are much more efficient to use the missile hardpoints. Just that at least as far as campaign goes, you graduate to the higher tonnage mechs anyways.

 

[HonorKnight]

Not sure what you're basing this on, but according to this post by HBS_Adarael: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?goto/post&id=24154215#post-24154215 only the first shot of any weapon can hit the head.

@HBS_Adarael misspoke in his last sentence, you can only inflict one pilot injury per attack from damage, not only one head hit. @Jade_Rook demonstrated unequivocally that an LRM can hit the head multiple times in a single salvo. But the first missile does have to hit the head or else all subsequent missiles from that weapon are incapable of hitting the head this turn. https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?goto/post&id=24160361#post-24160361