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Jan 9, 2005
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Hello, chaps! :D

Okay, I've been reading a couple of these new previews, and everything's looking fantastic as far as I'm concerned. The idea of you being your monarch, and running your nation how you want to is amazing. It means we simply have to use our imagination and we may do as we want, when we want!

If we want to to load up at an exact date and do as that monarch would have done, then why not? Louis XIV can declare war on the Netherlands, claiming them for France, and Henry VIII can break from Rome and create a new, renaissance England with a Protestant state church.

Anyway, as ever, I digress... :p

My point is that with regards to these new random monarchs: just how random is random?

Is there some sort of restraint in place? If I load up as a nation in which the monarch historically ruled for another twenty-seven years, what are the chances of said monarch dying a day after, or a week after?

Conversely, what are the chances of poor, sickly, TB-ridden Edward VI growing up big, strong and healthy and holding on 'till July, 1596?

I presume being a major new factor of the game that this has, or is, being tested throughly. It's just I'd like a mix of monarch timespans if possible. Regardless of how they died, there are many periods of history in which a successions of kings and/or queens ruled a nation, some of which may have had long and successful reigns, and others short and disasterous. Obviously, the opposite is also true :)

Look at Richard III, or James II - two and three year reigns respectively, yet both extremely infamous and influential in the annals of English history.

However, there is (I presume) every chance that by loading up as either of these monarchs, EUIII will model their deaths extremely differently. Will Richard III die fighting Dutch rebels, or James II leading his troops in alliance with Catholic France in 1708?

Anyway, I'm sure you all understand my point. We are told events will be deterministic and context-driven, which leads me nicely onto my next point.

How well will historical flavour be modelled in EUIII?

As always, I have great faith in Paradox's decisions on this front, but equally as always, I am an inquisitive soul :) Many of the great events from the EUII & III timelines (and as done so professionally in the AGCEEP and other mods) are based on flavour; things which on the face of it maybe aren't all that important in the grand scheme of things. Yet, with little things happening here & there, become the deciding factors in important and fun-to-play-out event chains. I am aware that Paradox's new style is to let the player be less boxed-in by events which might not be relevant whatsoever given how you or I have played that particular game.

Naturally, the AGCEEP has managed to curtal this problem through the use of excessive (and damn complicated, as I've found out myself through my feeble attempts at scripting) triggers and whatnot.

For example, I love playing out the Wars of the Roses, Hundred Years War, American Revolution, and of course the French Revolution and Napoléonic Wars. Naturally, in a roundabout fashion these events may still take place in EUIII. That doesn't bother me; I think a great example of the perrils of the old system - as pointed out by another P'doxer on here, forget who, sorry! - was the Spanish Bankrupcy event, which could happen regardless of your domestic & financial policies. However, P'dox have said that such events will now only fire should your country actually be bankrupt. This is very good news indeed!

But how do we replace the sense of flavour & history lost through these events? Most importantly (for me, at least), how does the new event system capture the fun of playing through a civil war? Again I refer to the WotR, simply because it's a period that fascinates me for many reasons, but mainly because I know something of the period; how would EUIII replicate the internal divisions of a nation - at all social levels - and of course the overthrowing and/or regicide of a ruling monarch?

It's easy to just wait for your king to die, and get your imagination to think that's EUIII's way of your country's hierarchy overthrowing your monarch - but where's the fun in that?

The French Wars of Religion, the Austrian, Polish & Spanish successions, the Glorious Revolution - how are such events (albeit in a more generic format, perhaps) handled by the game engine?

I'll use the Glorious Revolution as an example, simply because it's a concept that really could have happened in any number of nations. Nation A is ruled by a Catholic despot, despite being a (more-or-less) Protestant society; Nation A calls on Nation B (in this case, well known as a staunch defender of the Protestant faith, which just so happens to be at war with the world's premier Catholic monarch) to invade and depose of their tyrant.

In EUIII terms, a player could do this at any time, so long as England and the Netherlands both exist, and a relatively comparable set of circumstances exist.

I'm playing the Netherlands, for history's sake William III is Stadtholder. Somehow, a CB is obtained (the Netherlands had one, seeing as they were invited to invade England by Parliamament - how would this be modelled?) and I invade England. I manage to defeat the Royal Navy in the Channel and Dogger Bank, and move 12,000 troops to Kent to defeat James II's army of 8,000. I've already captured Kent - I then capture London.

For game's sake - I capture the south of England and re-take Manhattan and a few other minor colonies, thus knocking my warscore up somewhat.

What then? Is it possible for me to overthrow James II? Bare in mind that I'm a different religion to England (Reformed vs. Catholic), yet England is at least 80% Protestant.

Would it be possible for me to force England to change her state religion to Protestant and overthrow James II? I don't care if it's with a made-up, "random" monarch, so long as I have the ability to do what William III did in 1688. Historically, of course, he took the throne for himself (and his wife, James' daughter) - but there's nothing stopping me in-game from just sticking an Anglo-Dutch puppet on the throne, is there?

I wouldn't say it's asking for anything fancy, just a generic system for deposing a monarch (whatever the context, in this case an invitation to overthrow a despot) and sticking a puppet on the throne. Ideally, a swap of monarch file would be nice, so as you get random Dutch-sounding names instead of Anglo-Scots Stuart ones.

Naturally, you can replace the above scenario with any two nations and their two monarchs and monarch files - it's all the same thing. The religions can of course be totally different as well - I simply used that scenario as I know it well.

IMO, it's not a succession war per se, despite the fact that it became one due to William's choices and the fact that he let James escape to France, etc.

Anyway, a few points raised - please do ponder. Anyone in the know who could answer any of my points, well - t'would be much appreciated :D

Cheers!
 
Last edited:

unmerged(6777)

Field Marshal
Dec 10, 2001
12.470
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mandead said:
Hello, chaps! :D

<snip>

Anyway, a few points raised - please do ponder. Anyone in the know who could answer any of my points, well - t'would be much appreciated :D

Cheers!
Some interesting points indeed. Unfortunately those who know the answers (other than Johan) are not at liberty to respond, so....
 
Jan 9, 2005
8.858
5
MrT said:
Some interesting points indeed. Unfortunately those who know the answers (other than Johan) are not at liberty to respond, so....

Well, let's just have some educated guesses from those who don't know then :D
 

unmerged(52850)

Second Lieutenant
Jan 14, 2006
163
0
First, I didn't read your post - way to long.

Well, they can't be totally random IMHO.

I don't wont to see historically excellent monarchs being crap to often, just because the country have lost a few wars or gained a little prestige. I don't want to see Gustavus or Peter the Great be worthless administrators, just because of setbacks, but I could absolutely see their status slightly reduced if things are going bad.

They probably have some original stats which can either increase (if you're doing certain stuff) or decrease.

Size can't matter either, that doesn't make sense. Large empires have had bad monarchs exceeding good ones, which have been exceeded by good ones once more.

Other than that, I can't figure out how it will work. It will be fun to see, I trust P-dox.
 
Jan 9, 2005
8.858
5
Bumpe said:
First, I didn't read your post - way to long.

Well, they can't be totally random IMHO.

I don't wont to see historically excellent monarchs being crap to often, just because the country have lost a few wars or gained a little prestige. I don't want to see Gustavus or Peter the Great be worthless administrators, just because of setbacks, but I could absolutely see their status slightly reduced if things are going bad.

They probably have some original stats which can either increase (if you're doing certain stuff) or decrease.

Size can't matter either, that doesn't make sense. Large empires have had bad monarchs exceeding good ones, which have been exceeded by good ones once more.

Other than that, I can't figure out how it will work. It will be fun to see, I trust P-dox.

I don't think you'll have to worry much about that :)

If you start up a game as Sweden or Russia under Gustavus or Peter the Great, they will have stats which reflect their historical acheivements (ie, high) - likewise poorer monarchs will have lower stats.

If you get a monarch by the same name during a totally alien timeframe, they will have random stats, because they're random monarchs - not their historical namesakes.

:cool:
 

unmerged(59737)

Strategos ton Exkoubitores
Aug 9, 2006
3.100
25
Did you just anwser your own question?

EDIT: NO.
 

unmerged(59737)

Strategos ton Exkoubitores
Aug 9, 2006
3.100
25
My guess is that most of the aforementioned civil wars, takeovers etc. will be modeled as regular game mechanics, not via event. Eg. If you change your governmental ideal from Noble democracy to administrative monarchy, all those nobles you just disenfranchised might well want to re-enfranchise themselves by starting a civil war. All the succession wars have their bases covered, as we know from the Dev diary.

A religious civil war is probably just a regular civil war which is triggered by a large number of provinces not being tolerated by the ruling state religion, and having massive RR as a result.
 

Gaute65

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May 22, 2001
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You can change state religion in peace negation. You can also force a union. If you change a state religion there should be a change of government. Maybe that is done via events? If the king has a different religion than the state he can’t be king anymore.
 

unmerged(60670)

First Lieutenant
Sep 8, 2006
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Gaute65 said:
You can change state religion in peace negation. You can also force a union. If you change a state religion there should be a change of government. Maybe that is done via events? If the king has a different religion than the state he can’t be king anymore.
Did you read
http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=250305
? All you want to know about government types.
 

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First Lieutenant
Sep 8, 2006
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mandead said:
Well, let's just have some educated guesses from those who don't know then :D

My educated guess is:
in EUI you could vassalize it.
in EUII you could do previous + to force them to change religion
since there were so many talks in previews about monarchs, their dynasties and so on I suppose they did something great about them and an addition of ability to overthrow the ruling dynasty is the first that comes in mind when thinking in this direction + they tried to incorporate as many historical events as possible (as was said, the datebase of events itself is about 4 mb), so they couldn't miss these events of putting puppets into rule ;). So my guess is - you're right.