Joining HRE as Poland in AoW 1.8

[Jeggred86]

I asked on Reddit how to join the HRE as Poland in 1.8: http://www.reddit.com/r/eu4/comments/2kysyk/join_hre_as_poland_in_aow_18/

(-3 unrest, tech and stability cost reduction are too nice to pass)

There are two ways to do it (thanks LeihTexia and sculpt0r):

1. Take Danzig > Move capital > Sell provinces to vassal > Culture Shift > Improve relations with Austria > Join HRE

2. Switch to despotic monarchy (so you don’t get the 25% vassal bonus), don’t take the PU decision or you will change the government again >Sell provinces to vassal > Improve relations with Austria > Join HRE

I tested both and they work.

(That was only a basic description, I could elaborate it if you want)

What do you think is the best way to join? What pros and cons do you see long term?

1.

+ Germanic Culture makes the HRE game easier.
+ Germanic Culture lets you form Germany later for accepted culture over the German region.
+ You will or want to conquer Danzig anyway
+ You can immediately continue to fabricate claims and conquer territory from TO and Pomerania
- Takes a bit of time and a (relatively big) war.
- Integrating Vassals takes longer (more provinces / wrong culture)

2.

+ Is relatively fast to do
+ You should be able to PU Bohemia (1. takes a lot of time and Bohemia will have an heir most of the time when you joined the HRE)
+ Vassal faster to integrate
- No German culture makes the HRE game harder
- You are isolated until you integrated your old provinces.

Haven't played Poland before or tried to join the HRE with another country so this is only theoretical. (Ok, I did it as Portugal > Spain, but that was in late 1700 so that doesn't count)

 

[Ranjid]

1.) Umh, why don't you just start as the TO and conquer Poland? This route makes no sense whatsoever, since you'll just be a gimped TO with eastern tech and inferior NIs. Sure you can PU Lithuania...but meh.

2.) I'm quite neutral about this. It seems reasonable.

 

[oblio-]

2. Seems simpler. I'd go for 1 if I'd want to form Prussia.

 

[FrosT37]

If you form Prussia from Poland, do you still keep the elective monarchy?

 

[oblio-]

If you form Prussia from Poland, do you still keep the elective monarchy?

I doubt it. Prussia is one of those formable countries that comes with its own government forms (similarly to Italy turning you into a kingdom if you're an Italian republic forming it).

 

[Ranjid]

If you form Prussia from Poland, do you still keep the elective monarchy?

The government type is kept unless you form Prussia as TO. Riga and Livonian Order would be Theocracies as well. So you should keep the EM.

 

[oblio-]

The government type is kept unless you form Prussia as TO. Riga and Livonian Order would be Theocracies as well. So you should keep the EM.

Ah, I forgot about that

 

[FrosT37]

The government type is kept unless you form Prussia as TO. Riga and Livonian Order would be Theocracies as well. So you should keep the EM.

Oh wow, I think I know what my next game is going to be.

 

[D-A-C]

This is actually something I'm really interested in when I try a Poland into Space achievement run, I'd love to easily and relatively non-gamey enter the HRE.

Once inside, is it possible to vassal some of the small electors and get nominated Emperor aswell do you think?

 

[FrosT37]

This is actually something I'm really interested in when I try a Poland into Space achievement run, I'd love to easily and relatively non-gamey enter the HRE.

Once inside, is it possible to vassal some of the small electors and get nominated Emperor aswell do you think?

Once inside there is no need to vassalize electors because you won't have the maluses for not being germanic and being outside the HRE.

Just improve relations with the electors and don't attack the HRE. Having high diplomatic reputation (influence idea group) will also help.

 

[Miravlix]

In my Russia game, I simply grabbed enough electors to become Emperor. Sucks to add all the provinces to the HRE .

I just don't see the point for a large country to cripple itself to join the HRE.

 

[Ricox]

This is actually something I'm really interested in when I try a Poland into Space achievement run, I'd love to easily and relatively non-gamey enter the HRE.

Once inside, is it possible to vassal some of the small electors and get nominated Emperor aswell do you think?

A vassal elector gives you only +50 with that elector, while giving -50 with non-vassalized electors. Not worth it, unless you plan on vassalizing the majority of vassals and can easily keep them under control.

 

[Jeggred86]

If an elector is a vassal the emperor will get -0,1 IA / month. They don't have to be your vassal. If Bohemia is a vassal of the Teutonic Order and Austria is Emperor they will get the IA penalty. (Just read it, didn't try it)

 

[Jeggred86]

1.) Umh, why don't you just start as the TO and conquer Poland? This route makes no sense whatsoever, since you'll just be a gimped TO with eastern tech and inferior NIs. Sure you can PU Lithuania...but meh.

I'm playing Iron Man and want to get the achievements.

 

[oblio-]

I'm playing Iron Man and want to get the achievements.

What achievements are you aiming for exactly? There are easier ways to get them, and there are hard ways.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

3. Ally France, keep up in military tech, and vassal 2-3 electors. Become emperor and add your capitol.

 

[Gyorn]

2) might work like that, however it is also possible to do it while getting the PU. Dont conquer anything, get the PU ASAP and sell your cores to Lithunia. Im currently playing with this setup and iirc i could join once i was down to my capital + the province between Danzig and Neumark, thus being able to DOW TO once i joined.
I can recomend this as you dont have to pay integration costs for the provinces you sell to Lithunia as you annex them via decision later on.

 

[sermaciej]

Can't you sell everything but Krakow to Lithuania after PU? That's less risky, as in 2 you can lose chance for PU.

 

[unmerged(36209)]

4. Force PU with Lithuania, sell most provinces to them. PU provinces doeasnt count for HRE limit at all. You will regain sold provinces for free after 50 yrs(via decision).

 

[Jeggred86]

4. Force PU with Lithuania, sell most provinces to them. PU provinces doeasnt count for HRE limit at all. You will regain sold provinces for free after 50 yrs(via decision).

Thanks. Didn't know PU's don't count.

PU Lithuania > RM Bohemia > Ally Austria > Sell Provinces to Lithuania > Join HRE > DoW TO > Claim throne Bohemia > DoW Bohemia > End war TO (take Danzig) > PU Bohemia > Move capital to Danzig > Culture Shift > WIN

In my last try I couldn't DoW Bohemia while Austria was fighting on my side against TO (wasn't in HRE then)...
Can I DoW when I'm already in the HRE?
Can I join HRE while at war? Being at war together with Austria would raise my relations.

I'm not sure about moving my capital and doing a culture shift, but I already lost all my Polish provinces and having a Germanic culture will improve my relations with HRE members. With the change to elector vassals (-0.1 IA when an elector is a vassal) you have to go the diplomatic way.