Johan Twitter Update February 4th

[Grand Historian]

Do you mean compared to the previous reveal or how it is in 1.19? I think Ashikaga is the only change in this shot compared to what we've seen before- I still count 39 provinces on the main three islands, I can't tell whether any daimyo have been changed though.

Still no change to Korea it looks like, I hope that's still to come.

I see no new provinces either. However, as Kyoto starts off with 16 development at the beginning, it's likely it got nerfed as I doubt Paradox made Sagami a measly 5 dev province.

So the Izu were shoguns in 1444?

No. There was no Izu clan - I believe he means the province.

I'm more curious why the Ashikaga still have... it's basically Izu Province historically, but doesn't appear to be called as such.

The Ashikaga controlled Kyoto (in name) and Sagami province at the start of the game historically (Sagami and not Izu has always been the dominate member of the duo, despite what Shogun 2 thought). As if you didn't give the Ashikaga Sagami at start - as they actually had more power there than in Kyoto, even managing to kill Noritada Uesugi, in addition to that branch of the Ashikaga staging multiple rebellions - you basically lose all arguments for letting the Ashikaga control Kyoto at start, and thus having the Shogunate as a political entity instead of a mechanic.

 

[Chaos_TLW]

The Ashikaga controlled Kyoto (in name) and Sagami province at the start of the game historically (Sagami and not Izu has always been the dominate member of the duo, despite what Shogun 2 thought). As if you didn't give the Ashikaga Sagami at start - as they actually had more power there than in Kyoto, even managing to kill Noritada Uesugi, in addition to that branch of the Ashikaga staging multiple rebellions - you basically lose all arguments for letting the Ashikaga control Kyoto at start, and thus having the Shogunate as a political entity instead of a mechanic.

So how could that be represented in-game? Japan as a separate tag controlling only Kyoto as a vassal of the Ashikaga? Or making Kyoto not-the-capital and having it as high autonomy, as it is controlled in name only? I'm not very knowledgeable about Japanese history pre-Meiji, to be quite honest, and I think it is showing.

 

[Dakka]

So how could that be represented in-game? Japan as a separate tag controlling only Kyoto as a vassal of the Ashikaga? Or making Kyoto not-the-capital and having it as high autonomy, as it is controlled in name only? I'm not very knowledgeable about Japanese history pre-Meiji, to be quite honest, and I think it is showing.

If you click the link in his signature it will show you what his ideas for Japan were. That should give you the gist

 

[Grand Historian]

So how could that be represented in-game? Japan as a separate tag controlling only Kyoto as a vassal of the Ashikaga? Or making Kyoto not-the-capital and having it as high autonomy, as it is controlled in name only? I'm not very knowledgeable about Japanese history pre-Meiji, to be quite honest, and I think it is showing.

If you click the link in his signature it will show you what his ideas for Japan were. That should give you the gist

Well, currently, I actually think just having replaced Japan with the Ashikaga as a continuous nation is the best solution short of a full blown Shogunate mechanic. If we were to divide the Ashikaga to represent the divisions in the branches, then that would give carte blanche to do the same to the other Shugo, and that would just cause needless lag.

 

[Sadino]

No. There was no Izu clan - I believe he means the province.

Indeed. I'm just familiar with Izu because I happen to remember it being the province on that little peninsula.

The Ashikaga controlled Kyoto (in name) and Sagami province at the start of the game historically (Sagami and not Izu has always been the dominate member of the duo, despite what Shogun 2 thought). As if you didn't give the Ashikaga Sagami at start - as they actually had more power there than in Kyoto, even managing to kill Noritada Uesugi, in addition to that branch of the Ashikaga staging multiple rebellions - you basically lose all arguments for letting the Ashikaga control Kyoto at start, and thus having the Shogunate as a political entity instead of a mechanic.

Ah, makes sense. And what further research I've done after looking at what you mentioned backs up the Ashikaga holding Kamakura at that particular time period. I'm just not as familiar with pre-Onin War Japan as I am post, and I'm more familiar with the Hojo's presence in the area, particularly the Late Hojo.

 

[Me_]

I do wonder if they are going to add some mechanism for Japan.

Doesn't seem like they are adding a new system, but they are reworking the existing one eg. daimyo is now a separate type of subject that doesn't cost diplo slot.

 

[Sanny]

Actually a decent change for once. Love unifying Japan. Next patch will be very fun.

 

[Metz]

No split for Mutso or Rikuzen?

 

[Little One]

I have to admit, the one thing that always frustrated me about EU4 was how when playing certain nations you're more-or-less forced to fill out a national focus to become a different nation. Granted it's been several months since I've played, but when I played as the Timurids, the constant rebellions made it really difficult to stay Timurids instead of taking their upgrade option... and while this was even longer ago, I was really proud of conquering Japan as Shimatsu (Satsuma?), and was disappointed when taking the capitol turned me INTO Japan. I wish (without mods) that there was an avenue for country development and reform without the forced name/flag changes. Maybe there is now, and I'm just not aware of it. I'll have to boot it up again.

 

[Giakhanh271]

"Japan has got some further changes for 1.20...." - Johan on Twitter

i wonder why you didn't make a japanese regency government with emperor as ruler and shogun as a regency, in other case shogun will be the controller of emperor with another skill set like ruler but higher than emperor in the period, and somehow when playing as the daimyo we can have other way to get control the emperor so that can have the casus belli to overthrow the current shogun and maybe can unite the japan.