Johan twitter tease- Protectorate Fix!

[bbqftw]

Because crap like this happens: http://imgur.com/a/SVKgA

Yeah, please just remove protectorates altogether.

(I know why this happens, by the way. But this is after extensive testing on how countries spawn with institutions)

If doing basic testing on crucial expansion mechanics is too much effort I'd prefer simplification as much as possible.

 

[Vulkandrache]

Because crap like this happens:

Why is this being downvoted. This happens quite often, the UI is straight up lying again.
And the opposite (says protectorate, releases as vassal) happens aswell.

 

[Silver Wizard]

Why is this being downvoted.

Because this forum doesn't differentiate between "You're right, but don't bring it friendly enough.", "You're wrong, but your arguments are put forward well.", and "You're a moron.". It all gets heaped to "Respectfully Disagree", I believe the first was the case here.

 

[zukodark]

Why is this being downvoted. This happens quite often, the UI is straight up lying again.
And the opposite (says protectorate, releases as vassal) happens aswell.

They did after all say "Yeah, please just remove protectorates altogether." This isn't a discussion on whether protectorates worked before or not, but whether removing it is the right response.

 

[bbqftw]

I care about having a functional game more than historical immersion. In my view, translating protectorates which were clearly designed to work in a rigid techgroup based system is not worth the effort.

 

[Metz]

They could adopt the puppet mechanic from HoI4 but with different names and then have you spend DIP to tighten your grip on them and derank their autonomy (strengthen your control and benefits).

 

[Pintu]

Why is this being downvoted. This happens quite often, the UI is straight up lying again.
And the opposite (says protectorate, releases as vassal) happens aswell.

because "the ui is buggy" isn't a real reason for "remove the whole feature"

 

[atomnoy]

rip the dream of Vatican-Russia-Prussia with 30% extra morale and 10% extra discipline compared to regular Prussia

how it was ı dont understand can you explain?

 

[rho]

Another consequence of this will be to make the Black Jack achievement impossible without either being HRE and passing all the reforms or going ridiculously over diplo relation limit.

 

[Rider_of_Doom]

They could adopt the puppet mechanic from HoI4 but with different names and then have you spend DIP to tighten your grip on them and derank their autonomy (strengthen your control and benefits).

They could rework the whole system with vassals:

Make it like HoI IV with different stages.

Independence - ...
Autonomous Vassal - Gives money and trade power. Can deny CtAs and start own wars.
Addicted Vassal - Gives money and trade power. Can deny CtA, but can't start own wars.
Integrated Vassal - Gives money and trade power. Can't deny CtA, can't declare own wars.
Annexed (Vassal) - ...

Together with more events, flavor and choices even vassals could be interesting to play. The same applies for PUs. Currently, both stations are very often only a dead end, because the lesser partner can't do anything.

 

[Sukramo]

Yeah protectorates were garbage (Dont help you in wars, cant enforce religion, randomly break free, cant integrate). But they should have been fixed to be useful and not removed.

 

[Rikissa]

Another consequence of this will be to make the Black Jack achievement impossible without either being HRE and passing all the reforms or going ridiculously over diplo relation limit.

There are twelve colonial regions and you can have a maximum of nine permanent slots for diplomatic relations if I'm not mistaken

So you can get 21 subjects and the achievement without ever going over your limit if you're dedicated to it

I think this is in fact the reason why the number 21 was chosen for the achievement

You can of course also have multiple colonial nations in each region (and even more slots from events, NIs etc)

 

[Bella Gerant]

They could rework the whole system with vassals:

Make it like HoI IV with different stages.

Independence - ...
Autonomous Vassal - Gives money and trade power. Can deny CtAs and start own wars.
Addicted Vassal - Gives money and trade power. Can deny CtA, but can't start own wars.
Integrated Vassal - Gives money and trade power. Can't deny CtA, can't declare own wars.
Annexed (Vassal) - ...

Together with more events, flavor and choices even vassals could be interesting to play. The same applies for PUs. Currently, both stations are very often only a dead end, because the lesser partner can't do anything.

Yep, and that would make integration a bit more sensible than just "I'll throw birds at my vassal until they stop existing" logic. Not quite sure what that's supposed to model, anyways...

Also, isn't that just the HRE mechanics (minus the giving money and trade power)?

 

[Rider_of_Doom]

Yep, and that would make integration a bit more sensible than just "I'll throw birds at my vassal until they stop existing" logic. Not quite sure what that's supposed to model, anyways...

Also, isn't that just the HRE mechanics (minus the giving money and trade power)?

The HRE has a different way to model itself. The emperor has indirect control via decisions (return territory, enforce religion, bla, which can be refused) and normal vassals are influenced directly by their overlord without an own decision at the moment.

I wish the whole vassal and PU mechanic together with the mechanics of the HRE would be revamped and extended to be more logical and complex (variety and decisions) for both sides.

Prussia, which would be a perfect candidate name giver for something like this was used for 1.18. So... I hope for a Austria/Habsburg Patch. Their dynasty would be also a good name giver for a rework like this.

 

[Sfan]

There are twelve colonial regions and you can have a maximum of nine permanent slots for diplomatic relations if I'm not mistaken

So you can get 21 subjects and the achievement without ever going over your limit if you're dedicated to it

I think this is in fact the reason why the number 21 was chosen for the achievement

You can of course also have multiple colonial nations in each region (and even more slots from events, NIs etc)

You can also finish a game and release enough nations as a vassal as needed. The achievement is not that hard to get.

 

[Ishmael_Dandalo]

They could rework the whole system with vassals:

Make it like HoI IV with different stages.

Independence - ...
Autonomous Vassal - Gives money and trade power. Can deny CtAs and start own wars.
Addicted Vassal - Gives money and trade power. Can deny CtA, but can't start own wars.
Integrated Vassal - Gives money and trade power. Can't deny CtA, can't declare own wars.
Annexed (Vassal) - ...

Together with more events, flavor and choices even vassals could be interesting to play. The same applies for PUs. Currently, both stations are very often only a dead end, because the lesser partner can't do anything.

This sounds fun.

Also, not to minimize the concerns in this thread, but with the addition of tributaries, the Japan vassal rework Johan tweeted, and the elimination of protectorates, I can't help but wonder if there's some broader subject rework yet to be revealed. We can only hope I guess!

 

[zukodark]

Unless they are going to dedicate a DLC or at the very least a patch on European expansion into south Asia, I'm going to be quite disappointed. The expansion CB doesn't work as well anymore, no more protectorates, much harder to go there and the AI never does it. It is sort of sad that such an important and interesting part of the time period is being more and more neglected.

 

[lolada]

Tbh i never liked protectorate mechanics... it was always gimmicky and weird. But turning everything into vassals doesn't feel right.. Guess they'll have to rework it again at some point.

 

[Gratak]

In combination with the extremely high LD per development vassal currently "enjoy" this change is not really helpful... But maybe they will reduce vassal LD while they are at it...

 

[iShurik]

We will see, how this works out. I hope, there is an option for free vassals (without diplomatic upkeep) in oversea regions.
Maybe the don't take any upkeep if they are behind in institutions. There were too many mechanics tied to protectorates to just remove them with no replacement.