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Aigle édenté

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Hello all,
I have trouble with my main families, it seems since I designated my ruler as general 2 families aren't satisfied anymore : 2 jobs and officies were enough before, and now they ask for 3 and they feel scorned. Many characters have their loyalty crippled, so here is my question : What does determine the number of needed jobs to be content ? Does it depend on the power base or family prestige ?
 

IsaacCAT

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Hello all,
I have trouble with my main families, it seems since I designated my ruler as general 2 families aren't satisfied anymore : 2 jobs and officies were enough before, and now they ask for 3 and they feel scorned. Many characters have their loyalty crippled, so here is my question : What does determine the number of needed jobs to be content ? Does it depend on the power base or family prestige ?

The game distributes the available positions in the game as a percentage for the major families (see imperator wiki). It seems you created a job position with the army general that augmented the available jobs enough to increase the positions required by the major families.

For example, you have 8 jobs available for 3 major families in Local Powers that require a 33% of all jobs each (8x0.3=2.6). Thus, each family requires 2 jobs each. If you increase the available jobs to 9, then all families require now 3 positions (9x0.33=3).

Family prestige now only affects power base if imperator wiki is right. It would be great if family prestige will play other roles in the future.

EDIT: as @Aigle édenté has shown on the post below, the right formula for my example is:

Expected positions for each major family = round ( Total number of Positions * 0.7)/(Number of Major Families) = round (8*0.7/3)=2

When we increase total number positions to 9 we obtain expected positions for each major families = round (9*0.7/3)=3

*assuming round function is working as round up
 
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Aigle édenté

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Alright I think I understand the calculation, although the wiki gives a strange formula :
1603050856853.png

Why "positions x 0.7 ?"
Also I noticed that the "total number of positions" doesn't seem to count the ones occupied by minor characters, only major family members are considered to calculate it so you can increase the number of given jobs without regard to its consequences on necessary ones to satisfy the major families.
 

IsaacCAT

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Alright I think I understand the calculation, although the wiki gives a strange formula :View attachment 643439
Why "positions x 0.7 ?"
Also I noticed that the "total number of positions" doesn't seem to count the ones occupied by minor characters, only major family members are considered to calculate it so you can increase the number of given jobs without regard to its consequences on necessary ones to satisfy the major families.

The 0.7 is to allow for jobs for minor characters.
 
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DC123456789

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Alright I think I understand the calculation, although the wiki gives a strange formula :View attachment 643439
Why "positions x 0.7 ?"
Also I noticed that the "total number of positions" doesn't seem to count the ones occupied by minor characters, only major family members are considered to calculate it so you can increase the number of given jobs without regard to its consequences on necessary ones to satisfy the major families.

That's not correct, it does count positions held by minor characters.
 

IsaacCAT

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Hmmm. Minor characters ? I still don't understand, why x0.7 ?

I do not know either why 0.7 and not 0.8.

If you had to give all jobs to major families to avoid being scorned, you will never be able to select a minor family character without a penalty.

But I agree with you, the number is arbitrary. The player should be left alone with the decision to which family or character appoints the job. And then deal with the consequences of scorned families. How do you and the program decides a family is scorned? Instead of using that formula that is function of available jobs, I would rather use prestige as you mention before. A family with low prestige would be ambitious and would like to increase their prestige with important jobs. A family with high prestige will be satiated and instead of jobs, they will be getting rich using their influence (prestige), until one or two generations later, that prestige is reduced and they start again asking for important jobs for the family.

@WhyWhimsy already had an idea for Falling and Rising Great Families in this post
 
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Aigle édenté

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So how do you guys manage to maintain your families loyal and satisfied while having enough jobs and positions ? It seems difficult to me to have enough competent members of family at start, and even more later in the game. You either have not enough or unskilled members. Playing as Egypt I can't afford one more character to get a position so I can't hire a general nor admiral unless each one of the families ask for 1 more job and make me lose balance.
I agree with you @IsaacCAT, this family functioning needs to be reworked, though the link you give for @WhyWhimsy ideas seems to concern another aspect of the problem.
According of what @DC123456789 says, in the formula we got from the wiki, the "total number of positions" counts both major families jobs and minor characters ones. Is it right ?

PS : would it be a good idea to dismiss one of the researchers to free some space for a general ? The cost for technology is too high anyway...
 
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DC123456789

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So how do you guys manage to maintain your families loyal and satisfied while having enough jobs and positions ? It seems difficult to me to have enough competent members of family at start, and even more later in the game. You either have not enough or unskilled members. Playing as Egypt I can't afford one more character to get a position so I can't hire a general nor admiral unless each one of the families ask for 1 more job and make me lose balance.
I agree with you @IsaacCAT, this family functioning needs to be reworked, though the link you give for @WhyWhimsy ideas seems to concern another aspect of the problem.

It's rare that you'll actually have enough decent major family members to fill all the positions you want. If you want to keep them happy you'll have to accept that some of your positions are going to be filled with not-terribly-competent people - some of the less important offices, or maybe small governorships, usually do the trick. It's a very intentional balancing act between skill and connections.

It's not worth having less positions (=generals/admirals, the only ones you can make more/less of easily) just because you're about to increase the number of positions each family wants. Just replace a few characters you don't really need or make a couple more sinecure positions to put characters in.

According of what @DC123456789 says, in the formula we got from the wiki, the "total number of positions" counts both major families jobs and minor characters ones. Is it right ?

That's correct.

PS : would it be a good idea to dismiss one of the researchers to free some space for a general ? The cost for technology is too high anyway...

No.
 
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It's rare that you'll actually have enough decent major family members to fill all the positions you want. If you want to keep them happy you'll have to accept that some of your positions are going to be filled with not-terribly-competent people - some of the less important offices, or maybe small governorships, usually do the trick. It's a very intentional balancing act between skill and connections.

Can only agree with that. For the "big offices", depending on government form and your current situation there are quite a few positions where a low attribute is generally or situationally acceptable and satisfying a family plus perhaps getting more PI for an extremly loyal office holder is the better deal.

Republics: High Priest and Physican (mattering only in the moment you sacrifice or start treatment; I know that the latter gives +0.0X health per month - but honestly...does it really matter?), Magistrate (when having low/no AE currently), Tribune of Soldiers (in peacetime). The Censor partly: Go for a high attribute, but OTOH even more important is supporting the right faction, IMO.

Monarchies: Here I think we have the most "expendable" offices...Physican (see above), Royal Tutor (see above for High Priest - unless you currently let him educate the royal offspring), Marshal (unless you are in war and use mercs), Master of the Guard (unless at war; I know about the impact on protection against assasinations - but I don't see them really often in IR. We just aren't in CK3-land here ;) ) and Court Philosopher (if legitimacy is currently maxed out)

Tribes: Apothecary (...), War Chief (even in war times - recruitment speed is never an issue for me), Bodyguard (if manpower is maxed out; see also Master of the Guard above), Arbitrator (if low/no AE) - at the very beginning, even the Wiseman might count among them (Citizen happiness is important - but how many of them do you have at the start of the game as tribe?)

Governors are an option, if they only administrate little territory.

In peacetime, I often create or withdraw General jobs - by either concentrating forces in the hand of the ruling character or creating 1-cohort-armies for the sake of having a position more. 1-Ship-Admirals are a nice option, too - however, be aware that in republics those gain a lot of senatorial influence (so if you got that route, pay not only attention to the family, but also to the faction...)
 
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DC123456789

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So the minor characters job count in this formula : View attachment 644212
Does each of the positions of a single character count ? (when a character has multiple positions, for example when the ruler is also governor and general). Does the ruler itself count as a position, or the consort ?

Only appointable positions (offices, researchers, governors, generals, and admirals, IIRC) count. The ruler, consort, and heir do not count unless they are also a general or admiral (the ruler being governor of the capital region does not count).
 
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