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ShipsRower.jpg


Here's an interesting illustration from Scientific American (a local periodical) 1981. Note that as far as I can tell the larger polyremes were built at various times and places throughout the game period, but were usually purpose built for specific wars or operations. Perhaps a mixture of ship types, modifications and tactics would best represent this as it seems that in some cases the number or configuration of rowers was determined more by tactics (ramming vs boarding) than simply by ship size.

Title: Ramming horn
Effect: Offense bonus
Desc. A copper plated beak mounted at the prow of a ship allowed ramming operations intended to sink a single enemy vessel with moderate risk of loss.

From 600 BC ?

Title: Ramming operations
Effect: Defense bonus
Desc. As knowledge of ramming is refined, new tactics are devised to implement this device in large, multi-vessel operations.

From 500 BC ?

Title: Polyremis
Effect: Defense bonus/speed malus
Desc. Great ships that could carry a crew of thousands, these vessels were nearly unsinkable and made excellent platforms for artillery.

From 400 BC

Title: Ships catapult
Effect: Offense Bonus
Desc. Fore or aft mounted catapult small enough to be mounted on a trireme used to hurl stones or bolts at enemy vessels which could devastate an enemy crew from afar.

From 300 BC ?

The link below is a fascinating excerpt from Polybius in which he compares the roman maniple to the macedonian phalanx. If you are not familiar with it (I wasn't) it makes for interesting reading if you have the time.

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/polybius-maniple.html
 
I feel like were getting pretty OT (and I started it, sorry Descartes) so let me just say I totally agree with this sentiment. My concern is that it just feels wrong to have Rome "discover" the tech Gladius Hispaniensis when their poor, ignorant, one province neighbors to the west do not have it. It sounds like you get that and I think you sum up the meta of it nicely. I suppose we'll just have to wait and see what Descartes does with it, and your reminder is well taken that a certain degree of abstraction is simply unavoidable as that is how I take your meaning. Anyway, those concerns are why I offer up more doctrine oriented techs and less in the way of specifics. The Celt may have designed the blade, but the Roman figured out how to conquer the world with it!


edit: and I just read UP the thread and realized you already covered the Phalanx, Darthvegeta800, my bad.

No problem. In any case... back to digging up tech! ^^
Are there specific regions or topics you'd like to get more attention Descartes?
 
Numidia!

Title: Numidian Cavalry
Effect: Speed Bonus/Defense Malus
Desc. Fast light cavalry weel suited for raiding and harassment.

From 350 BC

Title: Numidian Tactics
Effect: Defence Bonus
Desc. Attack and dispersion tactics developed for use against infantry formations.

From 300 BC

Title: Numidian Arms
Effect: Offence Bonus
Desc. Light cavalry panoply of shield, sword, and javelins adapted to hit and run tactics.

From 250 BC

This is actually much more fun than hanging about on the HOI3 forums which was my previous spare-time hobby, there are some very hyperbolic folks over there.


PS - Tunnel Snakes Rule!
 
Title: Sacred Bands
Description: Carthage was most devoted to their Gods. Their elite infantry and cavalry were referred to as 'Sacred Bands'. The Elite Cavalry was composed entirely from young nobles, who devoted their lives to military training.
Effect:
Date:
Nations: Carthage

Title: Mercenary Experience
Description: Carthage relied strongly on experienced mercenaries to further their military interests on land.
Effect: Due to their experience in employing mercenaries, Carthage gains a small discount when hiring mercenaries.
Date:
Nations: Carthage
NOTE: Other effects are perhaps possible too? Dealing with Mercenary xp, end of contract costs etc?

Title: Corvus
Description: The Romans proved unable to deal with the Carthaginian navy during the First Punic War and hence developed the corvus, a spiked boarding bridge which allowed their soldiers to board enemy vessels.
Effect: The Navy receives a small offensive bonus.
Date: First Punic War
Nations: Rome

Title: Citizen Navy
Description: The Carthaginian lower class citizenry formed the bulk of all sailors as this occupation ensured stability and financial security for the less fortunate Carthaginians. A side-effect was that it also avoided much instability that might come from the rising ranks of poor city-folk.
Effect: Small rise in Navy Morale, small stability discount.
Date:
Nations: Carthage
 
Title: Harbourage
Effect: reduce ship-repair time
Desc. Long years of both trade and war at sea have taught valuable lessons in harbour design, maintenance, and facilities.

From 400 (Carthage)

Title: Serial Production
Effect: reduce naval build time
Desc. Expertise in shipbuilding leads to new methods of production made possible by an experienced workforce and simplified design techniques.

From 300 (Carthage)

Title: Mercenary Liaison
Effect: Small mercenary organization bonus/cost decrease
Desc. Reliance on mercenary forces compels the establishment of a dedicated staff of interpreters, paymasters, and commissary officers to minimize the problems often created by hordes of well-armed, foreign borne strangers.

From 300 (Carthage) -totally made up, but it would make sense and possibly encourage carthaginian AI to rely more on mercs as they did historically.

Tunnel snakes rule!

edit: I should really start reading Darthvegeta800's posts more carefully as I am emu'd once again re: mercenaries! :)

Edit: edit: PS - Descartes, If you'd like I can gather and arrange in chronological order (and/or regional) all of these invention ideas for presentation in a single post or thread, for the sake of clarity. Just say the word...
 
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I am a bit streched for time at the moment but here are a few ideas:

Liburni - small Illyrian privateering vessels (lembi or naves Liburnicae, "Liburnian ships") with one very large lateen sail, which, adopted by the Romans in their struggle with Carthage and in the Second Macedonian War, gradually supplanted the high-bulwarked galleys which had formerly been in use. The were used go for escape and boarding tactics.

African Forest Elephents - used by Carthage and Ptolemies as opposed to the large African Bush Elepehent and the Indian Elephent. After their conquest of Sicily (242 BC), the Romans wanted to capture some specimens that had been left behind in the middle of the island by the Carthaginians, but failed in the endeavor. The elephants with whom Hannibal crossed the Pyrenees and the Alps in order to invade Italy during the Second Punic War (218-201 BC) belonged to this group. The North African Elephant was also trained and used by the Ptolemaic dynasty of Egypt. Written in the 2nd century BC, the The Histories by Polybius (Histories 5.83) describe their inferiority in battle against the larger Indian elephants used by the Seleucid kings. A surviving Ptolemaic inscription enumerates three separate types of war elephants, the Troglodytic (probably Libyan), the Ethiopian, and the Indian. The Ptolemaic king prides himself with being the first to tame the Ethiopian elephants, a stock which should be identical to one of the two extant African species. It is believed the subspecies must have become extinct some decades after the Roman conquest of North Africa (perhaps in the 2nd century), due to overhunting for use in venatio games. Some authorities believe that small populations may have survived along the Sudanese and Eritrean coasts until the mid-19th century, but if so, these are now certainly extinct.

Reforms of Iphacrates - an Athenian general, the son of a shoemaker, who flourished in the earlier half of the 4th century BC. He owes his fame as much to the improvements he made in the equipment of the peltasts or light-armed mercenaries (named for their small pelte shield) as to his military successes. Historians have debated about just what kind of "peltasts" were affected by his reforms; one of the most popular positions is that he improved the performance of the Greek skirmishers so that they would be able to engage in prolonged hand-to-hand fighting as part of the main battle line, while another strong opinion posits that he worked his changes upon the mercenary hoplites that were an important factor in late 5th- and early 4th-century B.C. Greek land warfare. A third possibility is that his reforms were limited to hoplites serving as marines on board ships of the Athenian navy. His "Iphicratean reforms" consisted of increasing the length of their spears and swords, substituting linen cuirasses in place of heavier bronze armor, and introducing new footwear (later called iphicratids) that were easier to don and remove than previous models. In addition, he replaced the heavy hoplon/aspis with a lighter pelte that could be strapped to the forearm, freeing the left hand to help hold the lengthened spears. By these changes he greatly increased the rapidity of their movements. He also paid special attention to discipline, drill and maneuvers; the longer weapons, combined with the lighter armor and shield, forced his troops to take a more aggressive approach in tactical situations. With his peltasts Iphicrates dealt the Spartans a heavy blow in 392 BC-390 BC by almost annihilating a mora (a battalion of about 600 men) of their famous hoplites.
It is also thought that his reforms indirectly lead to the reforms of the Macedonian phalanx: http://www.ne.jp/asahi/luke/ueda-sarson/Iphikrates1.html
 
It's just that the law of the Twelve Tables was such a fundamental document in the history of Rome; I don't think it should be an invention with a puny road bonus. What about having a national decision called Enact the law of the Twelve Tables, that enabled an invention called Road-building duty?

Sounds good to me. I suggest that if a national decision is positive that it also include a +to stability and allow certain of the Tables to become available for selection which provide further bonuses (and drawbacks too of course).

With regards to the specific suggestion for roads, it appears that the Tables (specifically Table 7) dealt with paved roads. To me that infers that dirt (or corduroy roads) were well known and most likely available from the start, and that paved roads would then be the invention. The invention then provides the bonuses to military movement and trade.