Joan of Arc surviving?

[Mike von Bek]

In OTL, Joan was handed over to Jean of Luxembourg, younger brother of the Cardinal of Luxembourg who I believe was Chancellor of England. Whatever the case, Jean handed Joan over to the English, pocketed a few bob, and went on his merry way, later being inducted into the Order of the Golden Fleece.

Lets say that Alien Space Bats influce Duke Philippe such that he keeps Joan at the royal court in Dijon, and decides to hold onto her - not handing her over to the English, but not handing her back to the French either. She remains under a form of house-arrest for the rest of her life, occasionally making a prophetic statement, but otherwise a non-entity.

What happens? Does she still become a Saint? Was it her Martyrdom that led to that blessed state? Or would she merely become an interesting figure in the history of the 100 Years War, a peasant girl who convinced the French king to let her lead his armies, but didnt really do much with the rest of her life? Would France lay the smack down on Burgundy for refusing to return her? Would England side with France? Would Burgundy reach its hallowed state as the Great Duchy of the West? Would Jean be married to Philippes bastard, Antoine?

Any ideas?

 

[stnylan]

It is certainly fair harder to attain sainthood without martyrdom. When you get down to it, no matter how tough life can be, when one retains one face at the cost of one's life speaks of a certain quality as it were.

Though it depends. iirc some of Joan's followers were mightily upset at her treatment. If she was hung onto it is quite possible they would try to rescue her.

Just a thought.

 

[unmerged(9531)]

a witch a witch!!!! burn her!!!!

 

[Pero Coveilha]

She changed me to a newt!

 

[Mike the Red]

A newt?

Seriously, people who directly speak to God, are very awkward to have around, the Space Bats, would have had to be very persuasive to keep her alive in anyone's dungeon.

Just an opinion, but I can't see her ever becoming a saint without her being martyred, more like a footnote to history.

 

[unmerged(502)]

by the way, there is a theory that Joan of Arc did in fact stay alive. There are a few books on that even.

 

[Aetius]

What was she burned for BTW? Crossdressing was one of the things...

 

[Winkelried]

Originally posted by Aetius
What was she burned for BTW? Crossdressing was one of the things...

I think it boils down to "being successful against the English".

 

[Faeelin]

She talked about fighting the Hussites, IIRC. If we're lucky, she'll die there.

 

[unmerged(7924)]

The Hussites were those in Bohemia, right?

 

[Drakken]

Originally posted by Aetius
What was she burned for BTW? Crossdressing was one of the things...

She was certainly not burned for dressing as a man. She was burned for being relapse in her "heresy" : she chose to recant her confession (which she signed while laughing her ass off) and not to renounce her voices anymore. She was burned by the Church, not the English. So she has never been a "martyr", not on a strictly Christian definition. She has not been burned by a secular authority, like it will happen later in Modern Europe.

By the way, her canonization in 1905 has been made for a very concrete reason, to please France. It demonstrates very well how hard it had been for the Holy See to rehabilitate her fully, from heretic to a saint.

Finally, can we have a good discussion about the Maid without having the habitual kook-talking, please?

Drakken

 

[Drakken]

Originally posted by webbrave
by the way, there is a theory that Joan of Arc did in fact stay alive. There are a few books on that even.

One word, and it starts by the letter "B".

It has always sold books well, however...

Drakken