Jihad Sultans 2

[TAoD]

So my brother was watching me play this game for several days, and I played as many different characters over the week, and he noticed that in all of my games the Muslims seemed to blob everywhere and get many many many troops out of thin air. He also noted that the crusades never seem to work, and he joked that the game favors muslims more than anything else and should be called Jihad Sultans 2. I chuckled when he said this.

It does raise a good point though, since my brother doesnt play the game at all, and he noticed this from an outside perspective. It is frustrating that a majority of my games are nothing but muslim blobbed maps, and its not even worth fighting them in holy wars, because they literally crap out doomstacks from nowhere. And the crusades never work. D: It is odd to have a game named Crusader Kings and see most of your games spread Jihads/invasions every which way until the map is green. xD

 

[PerciXal]

Not trying to offend but your brother must not have much to do if he watches you play CK2. Though that name he thought up did make me laugh a bit.

 

[JJDXB]

Well, if we were to take Crusader Kings as a composite of two nouns (that is, to assume Crusader here is a noun), then the proper title for the Muslim based title would be Mujaheddin Sultans II. Again, though, if we were to use the modern translation of King in Arabic, which may not be appropriate, we get Mujaheddin Maliks II.

Between the two, Mujaheddin Sultans II sounds better.

 

[TAoD]

Im still wondering why the muslims get so many troops in comparison to Europeans though. :x

 

[americanu197]

unfortunately if before SoI some crusades did succeed and the muslims were somewhat fractured , which is why the crusades succeded historically , now after SoI muslims are very stable i hardly ever see any internal strife and i dont think ive seen a crusade succeed

 

[Theruss]

unfortunately if before SoI some crusades did succeed and the muslims were somewhat fractured , which is why the crusades succeded historically , now after SoI muslims are very stable i hardly ever see any internal strife and i dont think ive seen a crusade succeed

Correction, the Fatimids in the 1066 start are very stable and powerful. Play a later start like 1081, and the Fatamids will not have the same success, usually. Muslims are strong at the early start dates, rightfully so. However, late game or start in a later date, they seem a lot weaker. In the later dates, I see Crusades succeed far more often than Jihads.

 

[tnick0225]

Well, if we were to take Crusader Kings as a composite of two nouns (that is, to assume Crusader here is a noun), then the proper title for the Muslim based title would be Mujaheddin Sultans II. Again, though, if we were to use the modern translation of King in Arabic, which may not be appropriate, we get Mujaheddin Maliks II.

Between the two, Mujaheddin Sultans II sounds better.

Not to be nitpicky or anything but I personally prefer Jihadi Sheikhs over all the previously proposed names. It just has nice jingle of a sound to it I feel.

 

[JJDXB]

Not to be nitpicky or anything but I personally prefer Jihadi Sheikhs over all the previously proposed names. It just has nice jingle of a sound to it I feel.

That'd be because it sounds like Jihadi Shakes.

That's it, invent a time machine so I can travel back to the 70s and release a disco hit called Gee, Hardy Shakes

 

[sergeant113]

priceless =)))

 

[Sinroth]

I'm thinking its less that Muslims are overpowered and more that Holy War is a bit broken. 80% of my games tend to end up with one religion dominating the other. Is this just me?

 

[PerciXal]

Is this just me?

Nope.

 

[Sinroth]

I just played a game as Portucale and Castille literally just conquered all of Spain in <30 years. They warred one emir after the other.

 

[Hackworthy]

Im still wondering why the muslims get so many troops in comparison to Europeans though. :x

The Muslim world was wealthier, more advanced and more populous. It stands to reason they start with better tech and, consequentially, larger armies. However: PI's failure to implement the weakness of the Iberian Muslims and Fatimids as well as a lack of Christian unity and derring-do tends to lead to a disproportionate playing field.

 

[Sarog]

Are Iberian muslims still thought of to have too much of an edge? I can't say I've seen andalusian muslims achieve significant blobs for a long time now. Only in starting dates with the Almoravids having their big foothold on spain do I see dangerous muslim blobbing.

I tend to get more frustrated with seeing the French/Holy Roman scramble for Africa not being thwarted by jihad.

 

[knppel]

Comparing the 1066 start and the 1081, actually one should think the Muslims are stronger in the later, due to Alp Arslan already having took Armenia and Anatolia.

Now why are the muslims so much more dangerous if they actually start out with less land? A simple matter of ruling characters.
Al-Mustansir and Alp Arslan both start with the "Strong" trait, which in effect makes them outlive their designed weak sons in 60% of the games. Alp Arslan in general seems to get simply ridiculously good stats every game, while al-Mustansir usually starts out with 0 stewardship to limit his demesne- but well nowadays with the ambition to improve the stat, which also the AI takes thankfully, this is not a problem anymore if you start in 1066, and get a strong 30 year old ruler.
In 1081 start, Alp Arslan is dead since 10 years and al-Mustansir is in his late fourties, ensuring his pre-made weak sons actually have a chance to survive him.

Only character as overpowered I saw in the historics starts is the grey Eminence Barbarossa (who also got a worthless son to get rid off. Appearently, giving you a landed, useless son you have to dump somewhere is all the mechanic paradox thinks of to limit rulers with strong stats)

 

[NewbieOne]

The Muslims are ridiculously powerful and indeed give the impression of spawning troops out of thin air, nobody really knows from where until they make contact or threaten it. More than with anybody else, you need to watch wars closely or indeed, a huge stack will land atop of your sieging force like a rabbit out of a hat. But they have tech bonuses and all, so I don't think they're cheating in the sense of actually spawning units. But their re-raise rate used to be such that fighting them seemed pointless because they would seem to be always around the same army size regardless of defeats. That was in 1.04.

Historically, if you lived in those centuries, you would probably indeed see the Muslims as a megablob spawning troops all over the map and being so darn hard to stop. Eastern Roman Empire tried to contain them single-handedly but gave, and at Manzikert it got its backbone broken due to treason in the ranks. Never really recovered. Crusaders didn't do much overall, maybe other that providing the Muslims with something to focus their attention on instead of uniting and being on the offensive. Only the end of 17th century saw them pacified.

 

[Lessing]

This is highly arbitrary, but in my games, Iberia always fell to the Catholics in the end. Also, while France, England and HRE remained coherent and gained ground, the Muslim sultanates usually blow up after a while. One of the biggest breaks of balance was when the Fatamids invaded the ERE at one point. However, they didnt grow after that, so...

 

[Portal]

Play Project Balance or start in 1081. Project Balance may not be to your taste, and of course 1081 has base-game issues. Your choice.

 

[americanu197]

assuming that the tech advance and population is historically accurate what is definitely not historically accurate is the political stability at a time when the great muslim caliphate was already long gone because of all the fighting between shiite ,sunni and the other minor sects

 

[_krampe_]

I saw a picture of the fatamids on this forum someone testing their OPness where he conquered everything in 75 years.
Had to test it myself, i wasn't that fast because i lack the experience with muslim empires but one thing is right: Invasion CB is overpowered

My way:
Start 4 Holy wars on small neighbors
Invasion of Greece, ERE collaps (thanks to the Mamluk Mercs 67 gold to hire your vassals)
Holy war on all remaining duchies in one go
Invasion of Croatia
Invasion of Sicily
Invasion of Hungary
Invasion of Mesepotamia (so Seljuks won't interfer in holy wars against sunnis)
Invasion of Italy
Invasion of Germany
... and so on

It so great you can replace every landowner after invasion by revoking infidels and replace them with your culture/religion ones without the recently conquered penaly for many years.
-> More troops, more invasions, only the lack of piety slows you down. Thanks allah you can holy war nearly everyone