+1. So early in the game, the player is going to have to rely on his own tactics; every tech taken needs to directly speed up the process of grabbing more land, and while defensive helps win wars it won't speed them up much early on.
Jihad achievement
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+1. So early in the game, the player is going to have to rely on his own tactics; every tech taken needs to directly speed up the process of grabbing more land, and while defensive helps win wars it won't speed them up much early on.
Oh how fascinating. No wonder right after my Westernization (around 1590), after starting to DoW again, I thought, hmm, coring time seems to have decreased a little bit. But I was coring both claimed and non-claimed provinces so I chalked it up to being more careful being taking and coring only claimed lands.
Well, good to know that the penalty is already decreasing!
Well, Golden Horde leads a PU with the Timurids. Golden Horde is allied with Uzbek and Candar. The Ottomans broke their alliances with me. I already have full Iraq and my neighbours as vassals. The Mamluks will aid me against the Timurids.
Do you guys think that should i risk or would be better restart the game?
Do you guys think that should i risk or would be better restart the game?
Yeah. Although in my current game I'm spending so many ADM points on coring I don't even know when I'll get to the 5th idea. It's 1643 and I'm still on admin tech level 15 and some countries are already at level 20. Yeah, it's really the first 3 (maybe 4) ideas that'll make or break you.
I just found out that revolt risk affects goods produced, in addition to tax income! Those +15% revolt risk events have more bite than I thought. I was wondering how by now I'm still only netting between 40-100 ducats a month (depending on number of colonies, advisors, reinforcement etc).
In my game it is 1664 and I have 298 provinces, all but 5 or 6 are Sunni. All my vassals are now integrated and I would say there are still about 10 or so colonisable provinces left me for. That gives me 155 years to get about 200 provinces. The game is on!
I have been systematically picking all the small 1 and 2 base tax provinces to get, so the ones in southern Asia (Kachar, Shan, Ayuthaya territory), Oriat Horde land and Southern Japan. That way, I will be able to core the bigger 5 and 6 base tax provinces (central India, Manchuria etc) later. That means I can maximise province gain in ration to OE. It is still going to be very tight.
I have been systematically picking all the small 1 and 2 base tax provinces to get, so the ones in southern Asia (Kachar, Shan, Ayuthaya territory), Oriat Horde land and Southern Japan. That way, I will be able to core the bigger 5 and 6 base tax provinces (central India, Manchuria etc) later. That means I can maximise province gain in ration to OE. It is still going to be very tight.
Any advices of how close Siberia fast? I'll have to core one by one of these provinces.
Nice progress there.
Can you release some nation up there as vassal without it taking your northernmost province? I believe you can core a province you own as long as they touch one of your vassals.
Can you release some nation up there as vassal without it taking your northernmost province? I believe you can core a province you own as long as they touch one of your vassals.
Interesting, but isn't sure that i'll be able to vassalize Uzbek (the easiest neighbour here), the best option i'm seeing is attack Muscovy with aid of the Ottomans and Crimea.
I mean release a nation as vassal from the lands you already control. Like Sibir or Kazhak.
That's probably one of the best starts imaginable! But you actually want to push back westernizing otherwise you can't pick up many vassals. Especially one of the Ming factions.
But I see what you mean. Yeah, an early outpost to a neighboring Western nation takes potentially years to plan in advance.
But I see what you mean. Yeah, an early outpost to a neighboring Western nation takes potentially years to plan in advance.
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So, i finally did it yesterday evening (well, rather night, 3 hours sleep, wanted to finish this!)
Everything not sandy yellow in asia is a vassal.
As you can see there is still plenty of time left, and i already head 490 provinces at 1700 but i made a stupid mistake and accidentally released Ming (missclick, wanted to release some indian minor because OE, you can see the bump in the province graph) as a vassal before i had the 500
So, my general strategy was:
Stay Muslim (as you can see, i haven't westernized yet), use Ottomans as your warbitch early a buffer later, cut off Russia and the colonizers. All worked out fine, although Portugal somehow got 2 islands in Indonesia.
Ideas:
Innovative first, the merc bonus and we reducement really helped in the beginning, otherwise i would have had to take DOTF because i was at war constantly, unless i wanted to start annexing, so i saved practically 15% per tech (with increased innovative which always popped up when needed). It also helped to always stay 2 levels ahead in mil tech, thats better then any mil idea set in the first 100 years. Im still on par with Europe in Adm and Mil tech, dip of course not, spent it all for core returns.
Diplo is a no brainer if you want to have vassals
Exploration also, you would have to conquer eastern europe otherwise, wouldn't work while staying muslim.
Expansion, same reasons.
Adm. for the core bonus only. Would have also been a nice first, but i think this order was better because central asia is just full of cores to return. And thats practically all you do in the first 100 years. I only started coring in Africa and Egypt especially.
Aristocratic for the Diplomat only, as diplomats where the only constrain to my midgame expansion.
Offensive and quality last, so i can Unify Islam in the last 100 years. Spain will be a tough nut.
Bottom line:
OE's a bitch
I don't think it is even remotely doable westernized. You would need a coring bonus like the Ottomans, which you don't have. I didn't do the math, but i guess it's not even theoretically doable if you want stay under 100% OE most of the time, which you want. Otherwise you will fall so far behind because of the bad events, and you will run out of dip points before you run out of adm points.
Everybody is scared of you once you have the biggest army in the world. The only one who ever attacked me was oman, and that was 2 years in. They got vassalized outright.
Not that hard once Russia is cut off and the Cape colonized. I dowed Russia, seized their eastern colonies, then peaced out for a shitload of money.
Offered loans that will never be payed back are your friends. Easy way to get distant horde vassals with cores all over without eating a stab hit.
Could have done it by 1650 i guess if i hadn't played on speed 4 all the time. Got pretty boring
So yeah, you need all of asia plus half of africa, i am at ~560 once i annexed my vassals
p.s.: Am i the first who did it? I know there was a time you apparently got the achievement for clicking the start button... Gonna fetch me some Falafel in today's work break anyhow
Everything not sandy yellow in asia is a vassal.
As you can see there is still plenty of time left, and i already head 490 provinces at 1700 but i made a stupid mistake and accidentally released Ming (missclick, wanted to release some indian minor because OE, you can see the bump in the province graph) as a vassal before i had the 500
So, my general strategy was:
Stay Muslim (as you can see, i haven't westernized yet), use Ottomans as your warbitch early a buffer later, cut off Russia and the colonizers. All worked out fine, although Portugal somehow got 2 islands in Indonesia.
Ideas:
Innovative first, the merc bonus and we reducement really helped in the beginning, otherwise i would have had to take DOTF because i was at war constantly, unless i wanted to start annexing, so i saved practically 15% per tech (with increased innovative which always popped up when needed). It also helped to always stay 2 levels ahead in mil tech, thats better then any mil idea set in the first 100 years. Im still on par with Europe in Adm and Mil tech, dip of course not, spent it all for core returns.
Diplo is a no brainer if you want to have vassals
Exploration also, you would have to conquer eastern europe otherwise, wouldn't work while staying muslim.
Expansion, same reasons.
Adm. for the core bonus only. Would have also been a nice first, but i think this order was better because central asia is just full of cores to return. And thats practically all you do in the first 100 years. I only started coring in Africa and Egypt especially.
Aristocratic for the Diplomat only, as diplomats where the only constrain to my midgame expansion.
Offensive and quality last, so i can Unify Islam in the last 100 years. Spain will be a tough nut.
Bottom line:
OE's a bitch
I don't think it is even remotely doable westernized. You would need a coring bonus like the Ottomans, which you don't have. I didn't do the math, but i guess it's not even theoretically doable if you want stay under 100% OE most of the time, which you want. Otherwise you will fall so far behind because of the bad events, and you will run out of dip points before you run out of adm points.
Everybody is scared of you once you have the biggest army in the world. The only one who ever attacked me was oman, and that was 2 years in. They got vassalized outright.
Not that hard once Russia is cut off and the Cape colonized. I dowed Russia, seized their eastern colonies, then peaced out for a shitload of money.
Offered loans that will never be payed back are your friends. Easy way to get distant horde vassals with cores all over without eating a stab hit.
Could have done it by 1650 i guess if i hadn't played on speed 4 all the time. Got pretty boring
So yeah, you need all of asia plus half of africa, i am at ~560 once i annexed my vassals
p.s.: Am i the first who did it? I know there was a time you apparently got the achievement for clicking the start button... Gonna fetch me some Falafel in today's work break anyhow
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I think i'm in the right way hahaha but you did it fast '-'
BTW, how many OE you keep in your game?
BTW, how many OE you keep in your game?
Wow, that was fast. That's what makes this game deep and great--multiple venues to achieving the same goal! Gotta say, the ideas are well thought out by Paradox. Yeah, I think with a redo I might delay westernizing at least by 50 years to get more vassalizable states, but even westernized, many small nations eventually decide to westernize and you can just pick them up.
Just stay under 100%, 99 is still fine.
You game looks good, that's me 10 years earlier. About the same i guess:
Some tips:
Don't forget the Islands in the Indic. They colonize them first. You don't want France there.
Try to get Xi, Zhou and Shun cores asap. Xi disapperead before i got there, caused me a lot of trouble. Luckily, Shun got 2 military rulers so i could sell them some of the former Xi cores. DOW without CB if need be.
Let India and Southeast Asia conquer each other before you start to intervene large scale, you will have a much easier time with core returns, especially in india.
Move your capital to where diplomats and colonists are needed. I think i moved mine 5 times, as i never was short of AMP
You game looks good, that's me 10 years earlier. About the same i guess:
Some tips:
Don't forget the Islands in the Indic. They colonize them first. You don't want France there.
Try to get Xi, Zhou and Shun cores asap. Xi disapperead before i got there, caused me a lot of trouble. Luckily, Shun got 2 military rulers so i could sell them some of the former Xi cores. DOW without CB if need be.
Let India and Southeast Asia conquer each other before you start to intervene large scale, you will have a much easier time with core returns, especially in india.
Move your capital to where diplomats and colonists are needed. I think i moved mine 5 times, as i never was short of AMP
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That looks like an arm holding something that wants to eat Russia.I think i'm in the right way hahaha but you did it fast '-'
BTW, how many OE you keep in your game?
Well done! Innovative first is interesting; I wouldn't have thought of it. But it makes a lot of sense in retrospect.
So I ended up with 418 provinces in my Najd game. The achievement is definitely doable, learned a few things this thread. If I'd gotten administration tech early (had no idea -core cost reduced coring time, this would have easily made me get the extra provinces I needed) and I never picked exploration or moved into Sibiria. I'm doing another try right now which I'm hoping will get me the achievement. Anyway, what's your start as Najd? I'm not sure if mine is the most optimal. I always fabricate a claim on Yemen, leave one troop in Najd and scorch earth as they're moving in. They will stand there until completely decimated and my ~10,000 stack annihilates them. During the war, either Hedjaz or Oman tends to attack Yemen so make sure you have troops in whatever province they're going to siege. After you have all the provinces (minus their tiny island), gather your armies into a stack ontop of Hedjaz's or Oman's army (whoever declared war on Yemen), then vassalise. You'll be pulled into the war, destroy their troops in one battle and be in a war with no other participants (no Qara Quyunlu or Mamluks). In the meantime, I'm always improving relations with Mamluks so I can ally with them. Once I'm allied with Mamluks, I start trying for marriage + alliance with Ottomans and from there on it's just vassal feeding into hordes/Mamluk. Also head into africa as soon as Yemen is annexed.
Is there any better way to do this that's more efficient? I always picked diplomatic tree for the extra relations doing this, but if I want to get exploration early that'll longer to get. Maybe just full annex on Yemen immediately or something (would allow faster attack against Adal)? What do you all think?
Is there any better way to do this that's more efficient? I always picked diplomatic tree for the extra relations doing this, but if I want to get exploration early that'll longer to get. Maybe just full annex on Yemen immediately or something (would allow faster attack against Adal)? What do you all think?