Jewish DLC
- Thread starter Khezef
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I would love to play a Jewish ruler, but unfortunately the devs have said a million times that they won't do it 
Luckily there are some mods for that (although it is not the same)
Luckily there are some mods for that
(although it is not the same)
I would love to play a Jewish ruler, but unfortunately the devs have said a million times that they won't do it
Luckily there are some mods for that
Read the thread, the developers haven't said that a million times.
This thread is about what should be in Jewish dlc, not if there should be one.
In the history tab for the Kingdom of Khazaria Menasseh II is listed as tengri. An orthodox heresy at least would be better....
Judaism could have the advantage of not being considered as an infidel or heretic belief by muslims and christians, so they can't holy war jewish khazars?
Anyway, I think putting exiled nasirs in the game would be very far fetched (except in Iraq), what could exist is a heretidary rosh yeshiva or gaon title, and one of the goal of jews could be trying to amass enough authority and political power to revive the exilarch coucils, the sanhedrin or the semicha. Rabbi dinasties could trace back their lineage to famous sages... Things like that.
Rulers could seek these jewish community help to finance conquests with the promise of giving a holding to them.
One way to incorporate Jews would be in a manner similar to the patricians in republics with the exception being that they are tied to castles and cities, not so much bishoprics. Doing to would allow them to remain landless of sorts, but playable just as republics are playable.
They would serve as the bankers, merchants, scholars or the realm, with the potential to become extremely wealthy, but not too militarily powerful. They would have limited ability to conquer lands, perhaps CB or events for a return to Israel, but such would require a unity of many Jewish communities and leaders to achieve.
The character would be able to play as a religious figure, seeking high office within among the religious class; a merchant or possibly a scholar or teacher or a general to lead troops. Each of these "careers" could be used to advance through the the ranks of the Christian/Muslim/Pagan ruler's who control the county. For example, a scholar can be used to tutor the children increasing their learning and whatever other skill they excel in. They would serve separate from a guardian, more like a tutor in a specific field. For the non-Jewish player, this would allow a new resource of learning, economy and technology to tap within the realm. Should they rise to such a highly respected position within the realm, one can grant them lands and titles. However, one can also expel them from their lands, seize their assets and essentially gain a short term boost to gold at the cost of long term technological and economic growth. One can also invite Jews to their realm at the short term increase of revolt risk, but with the long term benefits.
Playing as a Jewish character would be less about acquiring landed titles and more about gaining prestige and wealth. I am not entirely sure how to implement this. An example would be choosing whether to provide your non-Jewish liege with troops or money for his war.
Obviously this is not comprehensive, but combined with other ideas would make adding Jews worthwhile.
They would serve as the bankers, merchants, scholars or the realm, with the potential to become extremely wealthy, but not too militarily powerful. They would have limited ability to conquer lands, perhaps CB or events for a return to Israel, but such would require a unity of many Jewish communities and leaders to achieve.
The character would be able to play as a religious figure, seeking high office within among the religious class; a merchant or possibly a scholar or teacher or a general to lead troops. Each of these "careers" could be used to advance through the the ranks of the Christian/Muslim/Pagan ruler's who control the county. For example, a scholar can be used to tutor the children increasing their learning and whatever other skill they excel in. They would serve separate from a guardian, more like a tutor in a specific field. For the non-Jewish player, this would allow a new resource of learning, economy and technology to tap within the realm. Should they rise to such a highly respected position within the realm, one can grant them lands and titles. However, one can also expel them from their lands, seize their assets and essentially gain a short term boost to gold at the cost of long term technological and economic growth. One can also invite Jews to their realm at the short term increase of revolt risk, but with the long term benefits.
Playing as a Jewish character would be less about acquiring landed titles and more about gaining prestige and wealth. I am not entirely sure how to implement this. An example would be choosing whether to provide your non-Jewish liege with troops or money for his war.
Obviously this is not comprehensive, but combined with other ideas would make adding Jews worthwhile.
There is even some historical evidence to support the provinces being Jewish; for example, there was a sudden shift in burial practices among everyone, not just the nobles; this indicates mass conversion.
And it makes sense; historically, if the nobles all start doing something, next it's the courtiers and random hangers-on, then its the peasant leaders, then the peasants, etc. Depends of course, particularly on the relative strength of any religious caste or clerical caste or the involvement of the religion in particular aspects of life.
For those who are too time-pressed to click on the link, this means the official relevant stance on the matter, since the Old Gods has been released, is thus "Never say never."
Couldn't help but laugh at the 'Anglo-Saxon Wizengamot' part later on in the stream...
For those who are too time-pressed to click on the link, this means the official relevant stance on the matter, since the Old Gods has been released, is thus "Never say never."
Couldn't help but laugh at the 'Anglo-Saxon Wizengamot' part later on in the stream...
Judaism!!!! Khazar Jews conquering the world!
Doomsdark said on the stream something like "never say never" about a Jewish DLC. It's probably not in their immediate plans, but it might be relevant at some point. Meanwhile: once the mods update, both CK 2+ and The Prince and the Thane adds Judaism.
Jews certainly had in impact in medieval society, but were too far from power to make a big impact on politics. Seems like a bad idea to have a DLC focused on them.
Besides who would trust paradox to handle this in a realistic and interesting manner? They just avoid talking about jews completely, just look at hearts of iron. I guess everyone would freak out if you could kill them just like you can every other ethnicity in CK2.
They could probably include judaism as a minor thing in the old gods or a possible future christian DLC, but of course, if they simplified the religion like they did to all others everyone would freak out.
Besides who would trust paradox to handle this in a realistic and interesting manner? They just avoid talking about jews completely, just look at hearts of iron. I guess everyone would freak out if you could kill them just like you can every other ethnicity in CK2.
They could probably include judaism as a minor thing in the old gods or a possible future christian DLC, but of course, if they simplified the religion like they did to all others everyone would freak out.
1) The Khazar nobeles are Jews. So Jews are important in politics, especial at the 867 start date.
2) There where Jews in Victoria II without problems.
I don't really think they should get anything major, but they should be in game occasionally as rare couriers and in some events. Kinda like the Hindustan courier event. Maybe have a really good Jewish steward show up and an event could fire if you make him your steward that does something or other.
Preferably also make it impossible to convert them away from their religion in this case, otherwise nobody would get the event because gift+forceconvert.
Would be neat flavor
Preferably also make it impossible to convert them away from their religion in this case, otherwise nobody would get the event because gift+forceconvert.
Would be neat flavor
I think it could be really good to kill two birds with one stone (as it were).
Rather than make a Jewish DLC, make a "Abhramic DLC", or similar. Which fleshes out Christianity as well as adding judaism.
You could see a revamp of christianity in europe, adding many of the things people are asking for (like cardinals), as well as adding flavor.
Additionally, you could see the addition of Judaism as a religion, though it would only be a secondary focus. All that would be needed would be to add the religion in, have some events which create jewish courtiers, and add in a decision or two about reclaiming the jewish homeland (similar to the zorastorian thing in TOG).
There DLC could also handle minority faiths in the kingdoms, with more or less tolerance given. This could allow certain countries to be more Jewish (or other religion) friendly, allowing minority religions to flourish.
But as a side note, considering the all religions apart from christianity get some kind of boost to make their troops better or more numerous, I think a DLC that could revamp abhramic religions in general could be good.
Rather than make a Jewish DLC, make a "Abhramic DLC", or similar. Which fleshes out Christianity as well as adding judaism.
You could see a revamp of christianity in europe, adding many of the things people are asking for (like cardinals), as well as adding flavor.
Additionally, you could see the addition of Judaism as a religion, though it would only be a secondary focus. All that would be needed would be to add the religion in, have some events which create jewish courtiers, and add in a decision or two about reclaiming the jewish homeland (similar to the zorastorian thing in TOG).
There DLC could also handle minority faiths in the kingdoms, with more or less tolerance given. This could allow certain countries to be more Jewish (or other religion) friendly, allowing minority religions to flourish.
But as a side note, considering the all religions apart from christianity get some kind of boost to make their troops better or more numerous, I think a DLC that could revamp abhramic religions in general could be good.
Given that someone mentioned the comparison to heresies, I think that is actually somewhat apt; most heresies are, in-game, poorly fleshed out, with the exception of, off the top of my head, the Nestorians. Everyone else has almost no mechanics. Maybe a Jewish DLC could also flesh out the heresies a bit more? I'd love for there to be something unique about playing an iconoclast, ibadi, or cathar, in addition to having the Khazar rulers accurately portrayed as Jewish. Even if its just a few events or one gimmick modifier for the various heresies.
Don't get your hopes up. This will probably never happen. Paradox is anti-good/bad-publicity.
I don't think thats a fair assertion. Jewish communities, AND the rise of antisemitism are very prevalent in Vicky.
To be completely honest, to say that Jewish states had any sort of relevant role in the CK2 time period is a bit of an overstatement.
I didnt extensively play EU:Rome so I cant say how well they were represented in that game, which is the period of time I would assume that the Jews should be spotlighted.
The worst comment ever. I dont care if i kill a jewish or a catholic ruler..
If thats true, why is it allowed to kill christian persons? Are jewish people better humans?
Well I wouldn't say Vicky 2 Jews didn't have problems. Israel in V2 doesn't have a "Great Trek"-like decision so you can never get a flood of hundreds of thousands of European Jewish pops so as Israel the best you can do seems to be secondary power.