Jewish DLC

[stern]

This suggests that Judaism should have a rather unique moral authority system (if it has one at all), but I don't know what it could be.

They could have a piety system which works based on learning, learning improvement, scholar trait and learning related buildings.
But yeah, it's damn hard to imagine how judaism moral authority could work. Maybe the number of jewish courtiers employed in rulers councils could pump up the authority? Maybe being expelled or rejected by rulers could pump up their authority, as an exiled people?

 

[xittix]

I love how the majority of these responses are verbatim from earlier in the thread, and completely refuse to answer any of the numerous posts that criticize their point, ie. that Jews had no holdings at this time and would only be courtiers.

I'm also kind of curious how many people here who say Judaism would be a useless feature supported *Sunset Invasion.

The better question is "why should Paradox release a Jewish DLC?" We have 1 expansion left and I don't want it WASTED on this. Playable Theocracies is a MUCH better DLC idea and involves far more than a single group.

Jewish Only DLC--No thanks.
Playable Theocracies--Yes please.

 

[VolitionNewlove]

Too much work for Paradox to please too few to focus on a Jewish DLC. I'd much rather see something revolving around playable Theocracies.

The better question is "why should Paradox release a Jewish DLC?" We have 1 expansion left and I don't want it WASTED on this. Playable Theocracies is a MUCH better DLC idea and involves far more than a single group.

Jewish Only DLC--No thanks.
Playable Theocracies--Yes please.

Nobody, as far as I can tell, is calling for a DLC to solely be focussed on adding Jewish characters. Judaism could come with Theocracies, for example.

 

[xittix]

Nobody, as far as I can tell, is calling for a DLC to solely be focussed on adding Jewish characters. Judaism could come with Theocracies, for example.

Then the thread should be called "Theocracy DLC ideas" not "Jewish DLC"

 

[Izulin]

The better question is "why should Paradox release a Jewish DLC?" We have 1 expansion left and I don't want it wasted on this. Playable Theocracies is a MUCH better and involved more than a single group.

Jewish Only DLC--No thanks.
Playable Theocracies--Yes please.

Because, obviously, Paradox will release only 1 major expansion to CK2, until killing the title. It's not like, every DLC so far was a huge success.
The rumours that there is a fixed (let's say 4) amount of DLCs that will be ever released to CK2 are.. just a rumours, based on a
misinterpretation of Paradox words. All they said is that 'right now we have ideas for 4 major expansions'.

 

[stern]

completely refuse to answer any of the numerous posts that criticize their point, ie. that Jews had no holdings at this time and would only be courtiers.

I discussed this and no one replied to me.
Zoroastrians also doesn't have any holding in 1066 start date, they are only courtiers, nonetheless they are present.
Patricians also doesn't have any holding (besides the invisible mansion).
Historically there were jewish communities in West Germany, France, Venice, Andalus and other places, I don't think a jewish religious (yeshiva), economic (gheto) or cultural bulding in any of thse places in the same way Hashinshins appears in Syria or Iran will be so far fetched.

 

[Thure]

Because, obviously, Paradox will release only 1 major expansion to CK2, until killing the title. It's not like, every DLC so far was a huge success.
The rumours that there is a fixed (let's say 4) amount of DLCs that will be ever released to CK2 are.. just a rumours, based on a
misinterpretation of Paradox words. All they said is that 'right now we have ideas for 4 major expansions'.

This. Paradox wouldn't stop producing more DLCs. The point is... CKII and the most DLCs are bestsellers. They make money with every DLC. It would be stupid to stop now. As long as the DLCs sell good, there will be more DLCs (of course only if they have ideas for some). But noone ever said they would onmy make 4.

 

[xittix]

This. Paradox wouldn't stop producing more DLCs. The point is... CKII and the most DLCs are bestsellers. They make money with every DLC. It would be stupid to stop now. As long as the DLCs sell good, there will be more DLCs (of course only if they have ideas for some). But noone ever said they would onmy make 4.

I have a feeling the dev team has been re-tasked for the most part, with a smaller team focused on some DLC. The company needs to be developing CK3!! or they better be.....

 

[Kljunas]

By what it should add I was interested in ideas that would go into the dlc. The introduction of the religion should add a decent change and play style to the game. I am not against personally seeing a dlc come out with the Jewish faith nor saying its a waste of time. If anything I agree with statement that we should be talking about what should be in it if it was made.

If you really want Jewish faith added to this game your going to have to present aspects that would otherwise not exist in the game. I was interested in hearing ideas from people who have more knowledge on the subject then me. Since as I said outside of 4 random events for Catholics in Europe I cant think of a whole lot reason mostly due to lack of knowing a whole lot of the faith in this time period.

I thought that historical accuracy was generally reason enough to include something in the game. But yeah, Judaism on its own isn't important enough to be released as a DLC and it lacks features that would make it different from Catholicism (from a gameplay perspective).

It should be included as a little bonus in a big religious/Catholic DLC. Just very basic stuff like historical Jewish rulers, some Jewish courtiers, maybe one or two decisions like what the pagans got it TOG and a decision to create the kingdom of Israel.

 

[Jakalak]

I discussed this and no one replied to me.
Zoroastrians also doesn't have any holding in 1066 start date, they are only courtiers, nonetheless they are present.
Patricians also doesn't have any holding (besides the invisible mansion).
Historically there were jewish communities in West Germany, France, Venice, Andalus and other places, I don't think a jewish religious (yeshiva), economic (gheto) or cultural bulding in any of thse places in the same way Hashinshins appears in Syria or Iran will be so far fetched.

Sorry, I should have been more clear, I was praising your criticisms of their posts, the i.e. was an example of their repeated posts, not yours.

Apologies, again.

 

[Fizbun]

iirc Judaism and Jewish rulers were a thing in CK1. In the 1066 scenario there was a Jewish count near the Caspian Sea.
In the First Crusade scenario there was a province with Judaism as it's religion and a Jewish count being on the opposite side of a river. In either of these scenarios Judaism wasn't a big thing.

I don't see a reason why Judaism shouldn't be a thing in the new Old Gods scenario because the Khazar Empire must have left quite a lot of people following the Judaistic faith in the territories they had influence on. Well there are some reasons, one is that Judaism is quite complex to other religions. Atleast I can play as Zoroastrianans and if I'd like I can mod jews in and create an ahistorical Jewish Empire.

Talking about Empires this reminds me of the completely useless Aztec invasion dlc where Paradox added a Aztec religion just so that 12 year old kiddies could do something. And now I have read comments saying that Paradox isn't adding Judaism because they are too lazy, I just find them to be greedy like seen in Sunset Invasion. Having Jewish courtiers were a thing in early middle ages and it would make sense to have them runnig around from court to court maybe some even trying to claim power.

 

[Me_]

Because, obviously, Paradox will release only 1 major expansion to CK2, until killing the title. It's not like, every DLC so far was a huge success.
The rumours that there is a fixed (let's say 4) amount of DLCs that will be ever released to CK2 are.. just a rumours, based on a
misinterpretation of Paradox words. All they said is that 'right now we have ideas for 4 major expansions'.

Nope. In one of the livestreams before the TOG release they very clearly stated that originally they only planned for 4 expansions (Muslims, Byzantines, Republics and Pagans). That being said, they also said that thay are now brainstorming ideas for future DLC. That was all a few weeks ago (as a side note SI is not considered to be a part of those 4 and it's mostly non-essential stuff - events and graphics, so some side DLC are not beyond the realm of possibility.)

 

[Syphus]

I think people should forget about Khazars. They were irrelevant already in ~800 and were only a tribe whom the ruling elite converted to judaism.

I'm not sure if this has been responded to. But, while there is debate about how thoroughly the converted to Judaism...this is a game mainly about the ruling elite.

 

[Fizbun]

Nope. In one of the livestreams before the TOG release they very clearly stated that originally they only planned for 4 expansions (Muslims, Byzantines, Republics and Pagans). That being said, they also said that thay are now brainstorming ideas for future DLC. That was all a few weeks ago (as a side note SI is not considered to be a part of those 4 and it's mostly non-essential stuff - events and graphics, so some side DLC are not beyond the realm of possibility.)

But why couldn't Paradox release the game completely finished without having to release things that should have been in the game since it was released?

 

[WarwolfOmega]

Then the thread should be called "Theocracy DLC ideas" not "Jewish DLC"

/points to the thread title

Just saying...

Don't get me wrong, I think in a general Theocracy DLC, it would be a good idea to retroactively correct the Khazar to Judaism (at least the ruling elite) as well as the Kingdom of Semien. But' it would also be a lot of work to properly implement Judaism into the game mechanics for the rest of Europe/Asia.

 

[Thure]

But why couldn't Paradox release the game completely finished without having to release things that should have been in the game since it was released?

Because time and money. And the game was finished add realise. It was "Crusader Kings". And in the main game you could play Crusaders and Kings. The same people like in Crusader Kings I. All other groups are bonuses and new ideas.

 

[WarwolfOmega]

But why couldn't Paradox release the game completely finished without having to release things that should have been in the game since it was released?

Ya, I mean they don't even have serfs in the game and they were a major part of medieval life /sarcasm

It's because of today's gaming industry. The Internet has changed the way you publish a game, life time cycle has also shrunk to such a short length of time. Today, the pressure is to release a game as quickly as possible with the core functions, if it's popular enough, flesh it out with DLCs that will provide a source of continual financing. Take all the time spent on CK2 and the 4 major DLCs, if you consider that a complete game then, in the good old days, it would have taken all that time before PDox could see a penny for their efforts. You may not like DLCs but, they are here to stay, it's a reality of the gaming industry until the next big change.

OK, enough hijacking from me now

Edit: NINJA'd for the 3rd time today, bummer

 

[anomanderus]

Jewish characters should have a special "circumcised" trait. I don't know exactly what it would do, maybe a bonus to health or piety.

 

[stern]

I just saw now that there is a continuous eastern head of nestorian christianism, with no land but 2 vassals. Jewish religious heads could work in the same way, as a hereditary exiled nasir title, that after certain events asks for a holding in a province in Iraq or Andalus similar to how holy orders asks the king of Jerusalem after the crusades, and that improve the general state learning.

Khazars and ethiopians are problematic because it's very hard to represent an african minority with sparse historical knowledge about them or a jewish steppe nomad elite; in both cases the civilization and the culture weren't jewish. And the opposite of what someone said: khazars didn't convert anyone to judaism, they were actually converted by jews already settled there in the caucasus and the black sea, who fled repression in the byzantine empire, sassanid Persia- where they were very influential- after the muslim invasion, the persian client jewish state after byzantine invasion of Palestine and even after the bar kochba revolt. There was a very strong continuous presence of jewish merchants in the black sea.

Judaism could be modeled in many ways: people wouldn't convert to it only by being educated by a courtier, they could gain piety with learning and learning related things, and they wouldn't be able to rule any holdings besides cities inside republics and their own religious bulding. Religious holy sites could be maybe Jerusalem, Safed, Tiberias, Cordoba and/or Bagdah.

All in all I agree with everyone else, judaism should be implemented in a religion DLC, i.e. theocracies.

Sorry, I should have been more clear, I was praising your criticisms of their posts, the i.e. was an example of their repeated posts, not yours.

Apologies, again.

Oh, I'm sorry for wrongly interpreting your words.

 

[Kalderus]

I just saw now that there is a continuous eastern head of nestorian christianism, with no land but 2 vassals. Jewish religious heads could work in the same way, as a hereditary exiled nasir title, that after certain events asks for a holding in a province in Iraq or Andalus similar to how holy orders asks the king of Jerusalem after the crusades, and that improve the general state learning.

Khazars and ethiopians are problematic because it's very hard to represent an african minority with sparse historical knowledge about them or a jewish steppe nomad elite; in both cases the civilization and the culture weren't jewish. And the opposite of what someone said: khazars didn't convert anyone to judaism, they were actually converted by jews already settled there in the caucasus and the black sea, that fleed repression in the byzantine empire, sassanid Persia- where they were very influential- after the muslim invasion, the persian client jewish state after byzantine invasion of Palestine and even after the bar kochba revolt. There was a very strong continuous presence of jewish merchants in the black sea.

All in all I agree with everyone else, judaism should be implemented in a religion DLC, i.e. theocracies.



Oh, I'm sorry for wrongly interpreting your words.

You would also think that they could model Khazaria like they do Rurik and Holmgardr/Novgorod, with the ruler, direct family and his court + most trusted vassals as Jewish, but have the province religions and lowly courtiers mostly Tengri.