Might be because it killed off Paradox's previous excuse for not implementing Judaism.
And then they went ahead and created an additional religion just for dead courtiers.
Jewish DLC
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Might be because it killed off Paradox's previous excuse for not implementing Judaism.
And then they went ahead and created an additional religion just for dead courtiers.
Why are people so obsessed with Judaism playing a major role in CK2? I don't have a problem with it but it seems like a disproportionate reaction. Especially considering besides 1-2 areas there really weren't many title-holding jews for the entirety of CK2's period. If we're just saying "well they were IN Europe & central asia" and you're suggesting we can just have it as a religion for courtiers only, well, Buddhists were in central asia too during the same period, shouldn't there be Buddhist courtiers too if you're putting Jewish courtiers in?
All that said, I would be totally cool with them being implemented. Jews were really important in al-Andalus, especially scholars like Ibn Daud.
All that said, I would be totally cool with them being implemented. Jews were really important in al-Andalus, especially scholars like Ibn Daud.
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Doesn't have to play a "major" role, anymore than Armenian Miaphysites, or the various Nestorian counties at start, or the few Zoroastrian courtiers, counties and duchies there are at start. All of which are playable. The primary reason for alot of people is Khazaria rather than just including courtiers, however. The extent of the Khazarian borders in 850's:
Not excatly a minor regional player. Historically, their power and territory started to dwindle after the arrivial of the Kievan Rus, and the dissolution of their alliance with the Byzantines. Personally, I'd prefer if they devoted more effort into how Jewish characters with the actual possibility of owning land were implemented, rather than focusing too much on Jewish "flavour courtiers" amongst Christians and Muslims. It's unlikely, if not impossible to think that a Christian medieval ruler would grant even a barony to his Jewish courtier. Having a minute chance of getting a Jewish steward courtier as a non-Jewish character, should be like the occasional "A enunuch arrives at your court" event, rare and you shouldn't be able to grant them land.
I tend to agree... which leads me to wonder if maybe they should have two separate religions entirely.
'Judaism' is for an occasional random lowborn courtier who pops up in feudal courts. He can't be given land, can't marry a non-Jew, and can only be given the council posts of chancellor, steward and spymaster. As such, he can't have the 'martial' or 'theologian' education traits; to compensate perhaps give a bonus to the chance of getting a better version of the traits he can get, to represent better Jewish education. (That would be more elegant than giving Jews a bonus to tax income or the like.)
Perhaps also have an improvement that rulers can build within city holdings, called 'Jewish Quarter' (which sounds better from a PR perspective than 'ghetto'). It's very expensive and gives a Piety penalty if you build one, but it gives additional tax money and technology points.
Then, you have 'Khazar Judaism', a pagan religion. That way you don't have Khazar nobles intermarrying with Sephardic Jews and claiming counties all over the map, which you inevitably would if it was the same religion. (As far as I'm aware, there were little or no contacts or recognition between mainstream Judaism and the Khazars in real life). Khazar Jews don't get the defensive advantages or raiding power of other pagan faiths, but in return, they're immune to the Holy War CB from Christians and Muslims.
As for the so-called 'kingdom' of Semien, I'm dubious how much of its history is genuine and how much is later romantic elaboration. The religion of Ethiopia is far from mainstream Christianity anyway, being a mish-mash of Christian, Jewish and pagan traditions - not surprising given their isolation. Ethiopian Christians practice circumcision and follow the same dietary laws as Jews, for example. As I understand it, in Ethiopian speech 'Jew' (Ayhud) became little more than a term for "rebel against the divinely-appointed emperor", with little or no reference to the actual religion that person followed. So yes, if the province of Semien resisted imperial control its inhabitants might be stigmatised as 'Jews', but that doesn't mean their religion was actually any different from the mainstream Ethiopian faith. Even today, the question of whether the Falashas are "really" Jews is politically controversial even in Israel itself, although the official government decision was 'yes they are'.
So maybe make Beta Israel a Miaphysite heresy?
I think the main problem with CK2 and the Jewish faith is that there are next to no cases of Hasidic dynasties prior to the 17th century. You did have very powerful figures appear throughout history and Jewish communities that played important rules in history. But there are not any family unit that remained in influence for any amount of time.
And Crusader Kings is about dynasties.
I have Jewish family and tbh, I would get a kick out of playing a Jewish Lord. Especially one that becomes ruler of Germany for purely comical a-historical lol-sauce. But in the context of the game, the only way i really see Judaism playing a role is if you were to incorparate multi faith provinces and have bonuses based on that.
And I think that is why Paradox wont use it. Due to the dynamic of the game, the only way you could use Judaism is very minor compared to all the other religions in the game. And as with all religions they use, they have to a lot of work and research to ensure that no-one of those faiths would be offended and for something that would be a minor mechanic its just does not make fianancial sense. Not to mention people would just end up annoyed that they STILL cant play as a Jewish character.
And Crusader Kings is about dynasties.
I have Jewish family and tbh, I would get a kick out of playing a Jewish Lord. Especially one that becomes ruler of Germany for purely comical a-historical lol-sauce. But in the context of the game, the only way i really see Judaism playing a role is if you were to incorparate multi faith provinces and have bonuses based on that.
And I think that is why Paradox wont use it. Due to the dynamic of the game, the only way you could use Judaism is very minor compared to all the other religions in the game. And as with all religions they use, they have to a lot of work and research to ensure that no-one of those faiths would be offended and for something that would be a minor mechanic its just does not make fianancial sense. Not to mention people would just end up annoyed that they STILL cant play as a Jewish character.
The Lion of Judah could be a juicy title for a combo DLC focusing on both Judaism and Africa.
If by hasidic you mean rabbinical... Time and time again in this thread people posted about dynasty of sages such as the Kalonymus of 8th-11th century Germany, or even the family of Rashi which traced its lineage back to David. And the heads of eastern communities (Sura, Pumbedita) were dynastical too until they were killed by the Caliph in the 11th century.
Like heretic shia muslims appereaing suddenly in Byzantine controlled Syria or Sunni controlled Persia?
Or the head of the eastern nestorian church living in a court somewhere in Iraq, even having vassals?
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Still unsure whether Africa would be a big enough topic for a DLC. I mean, some fixes with Mali would be nice, as well as allowing Ethiopia to survive against the Fatimids, but other than that, there doesn't seem much which could be done.
We could implement entire new mechanics and flavor features for Africans like what they did for the Byzantines in LoR. There could be stuff surrounding Griots (who played an important role in the West African states), the mystical powers of blacksmiths (they were considered one of the most if not the most powerful and dangerous of people to be around), as well as expanding on the map and random flavor events and such. We don't have to have a TOG-sized DLC, but there's always room for ideas.
Well, didn't quite count North Africans, there. I suppose technically, though, the name 'Africa' pertains more to the Maghrib than any other part of the continent.
Glad that we did see that Berber culture was added (technically renamed from Maghreb Arabic, I presume the 'foreigners' would be modelled with Levantine Arab culture,) with the last patch, though.
There's lot to do in Africa. The whole setup in East Africa is wrong. No Semien, no Alodia, no Nubian culture and Zagwes waay before they got into power. In West Africa the coastline could be included. And what is this ahistorical thing called Harer?
And yes, include the Baqt, so Nuba isn't wiped out way too early.
And yes, a African DLC is not a big enough topic for a DLC alone, but neither is a Jewish DLC. So that's why I suggested them being bundled together.
South-east you say... India! Or at least a navigable Indian Ocean with trade routes and pirates. Come to think of it the Mediterranean lacks pirates as well.
Or at least a navigable Indian Ocean with trade routes and pirates. Come to think of it the Mediterranean lacks pirates as well.
Sorry for a newbie answer, but Wouldn't it be a good idea to make a special religion tab on a province like trade posts and buildings. Then, you can have all of the religions in the game shown on a bar chart. The one with most people will be the main religion in the province. Of course, if the ruler is a specific religion, then that religion will be bigger. Something along those lines would work, the major religion would be the province religion and then it would convert courtiers in neighboring provinces like technology?
At present the game tracks religion in an all-or-nothing way, so this would probably require a massive effort. Might be justifiable as part of a major expansion focused on religion in general.
Well, I could see Alexandria, which had a substantial Jewish population that was very prominent in theology IIRC. The holy site mechanic would be problematic for the Jewish religion, as even in the event of a restored jewish kingdom in the holy land most of the logical candidates would be in unbeliever hands, thus lowering moral authority constantly.
While both Africa and Judaism, on their own, probably wouldn't be big enough for a DLC... together, they might be big enough for a smaller DLC on the same scope as LoR (as already mentioned). After all, that DLC did not expand all that much for the gameplay, just fleshing out of an already existing and playable region (following SoI, which added some major new gameplay for unplayable characters, and preceding The Republic, which did the same, as well as the DLC-that-shall-not-be-named). This could be a similar DLC, something of a breather between larger DLC.
Also, if they went with 'Lion of Judah' as the DLC name, the music DLC name goes without saying:
Iron Lion Zion
While both Africa and Judaism, on their own, probably wouldn't be big enough for a DLC... together, they might be big enough for a smaller DLC on the same scope as LoR (as already mentioned). After all, that DLC did not expand all that much for the gameplay, just fleshing out of an already existing and playable region (following SoI, which added some major new gameplay for unplayable characters, and preceding The Republic, which did the same, as well as the DLC-that-shall-not-be-named). This could be a similar DLC, something of a breather between larger DLC.
Also, if they went with 'Lion of Judah' as the DLC name, the music DLC name goes without saying:
Iron Lion Zion
I could definitely see an East Africa + Judaism DLC like that. West Africa I think has enough for its own LoR or SI-sized DLC, but combining East Africa and Judaism isn't a bad idea.