I am doing the same game where I have taken the Date clan and conquered Japan and took some chunks in China/Korea already.
Due to stuff happening and some mismanagement my tech is waddling a little behind the other Asian nations, but thankfully I have managed to broker an uneasy alliance with Qing who border my Korean lands.
Right now in late 1593 and I only got 1 idea. That one is Expansion which allowed me to landgrab Taiwan/Hokkaido/Kuril's and Sakhalin. Whilst also giving me a third merchant which I am gladly using in dominating trade.
With that, I invested almost all my naval forcelimit in trade ships, having a whopping 59 of them busy working tradenodes. Due to the size of the fleet, I also am the dominant Asian naval army so said trade fleet can also partake in any wars they must.
My next tech is probably going to be Offensive like yours, since as Japan you are actively taking land instead of defending it. And you have no time to defend with your almost always inferior units compared to other nations. Quality is good to aim for, but know that once Europe comes knocking that Quality is going to be inferior anyways. So maybe it would be good to look at Quantity instead, to be able to use the massive forcelimit you will get once you start snatching Chinese lands.
The rest I really have little to remark about, it's very easy to become a dominant power with Japan and I am already making over 30 gold a month (with full maintenance) whilst only holding Japan/Korea and a couple of Chinese territories. And it's really better to prepare for European powers instead of your Asian rivals who can be taken apart quite easily if you get a smart alliance with Qing or a big Ming offshoot once their peasant wars start.
I see we're both pretty much running with the same strategy! Good to hear your take on this. I've right now grabbed most of central Japan (annexed Uesugi, took Suruga as stated prior, and have taken Etchu, the province to upper left from Kai) and intend to next consolidate the islands northern half by taking apart Shiba that holds four provinces, two to the north, and two to my south. After that I believe I'll be strong enough to take on the Ashikaga whom have yet to annex anyone. Will have to see, but my grand plan for the future is as follows:
-Unite Japan
-Colonize islands to the North. Keep expanding onto the pacific islands and Malaysia.
-Vassalize Korea (even if I have to annex/release)
-Vassalize the Manchu
-Break up Ming into three states, annex, release. I really don't want to make that huge of a landgrab as it would tie me down to the continent too much and I fear once the Timurids/Mughals have consolidated in India they will come knocking anyway.
-Finish colonizing as much of the pacific and malaysia as I can
-???
-Profit!
I haven't played an Asian game yet (for very long anyways), but I can offer a few suggestions. To me, Offensive is an inferior first mil idea to Defensive. The morale benefit of Defensive alone makes it the best single mil idea chain. 10% more attack from offensive and 15% more from quality (both towards the end of their chains) are needed to equal that 25% more health you get from morale.
I would also advise against Aristocratic. While one can argue that nations like Poland do well from the stacking Cav bonuses, the events are awful. Truly, truly awful. Deknegt's suggestion of using quantity instead of quality also strikes me as a good idea. While the Europeans will outclass you, their ability to project power abroad should be relatively limited. 33% large armies would do better than 15% more damage output.
I'll have to disagree on the defensive/offensive argument, but I can see your point. I mostly prefer the idea of offensive in this type of game due to my own playstyle being more mobile and "one hit kill" than letting attrition do the work for me. However I will due to your recommendation change Aristocracy and Quality to something else.
Your idea choice is pretty questionable. You cannot go Offensive and Aristocratic first because you'll fall behind in military technology. You probably shouldn't even go ANY military group first, because you have to save up so many points for military technology. You're all very close together; the guy who gets to military tech 6 first is going to have a huge advantage. Actually I'm kind of questioning how this game set-up is going to work at all. Any half-competent Ming player should stomp all of you without any problem.
Anyway, for your first idea group, you should probably go Expansion. Japan is not maritime oriented; don't fool yourself. Look at your NIs. Do you see any maritime ideas? No. You are a land power that sadly starts on an island. You shouldn't be colonizing Siberia if the mood strikes you; you should be going all out to get as many provinces there as possible. Same for the very valuable islands in southeast Asia. You need to colonize Asia ASAP to keep up with Ming. In all honesty I'd probably go Expansion+Exploration even if I weren't planning on Westernizing or colonizing America (like your game).
After Expansion and/or Exploration, Offensive is probably a good choice for a first group, but Defensive is probably better since you get such great ideas right off the bat, and +tradition is most valuable in the early game.
Aristocratic is one of the worst groups in the game, and for you it's extra bad. The main benefit of Aristocratic is the better cavalry, but you should never build cavalry as Japan because your NIs make your infantry so absurdly strong. Going aristocratic for the-10% military tech is absurd; it only saves you 60 MP per tech, even if you're Chinese group. The only reason to ever get Aristocratic is if you are going for the winged hussar achievement.
Naval, Trade - meh. These aren't bad groups but there are better ones. I could see Naval if can't get a land foothold early, but you should have enough ports for sufficient fleets if you're colonizing well.
Econ & Admin - if you're going to take these you need to take them early. Taking Econ as your 7th group? You've already built all your buildings already and you'll already be making tons of money. You won't get much benefit out of it. Similar problem with Admin; the main benefit is that it saves you tons of admin points on coring and inflation reduction and has cheaper mercenaries. You're not hiring a lot of mercenaries late in the game, but you are in the early game. If you're not taking Admin/Econ as your 3rd or 4th group you might as well never take them.
Idea groups you should take and aren't: Innovative, which is way better than either Econ or Admin; Defensive, which is the best early military group because the morale bonus is huge, especially when you have great Discipline and can stay around a long time doing damage; and maybe Religious, because Shinto? It's nowhere else in the world. You'll have a hell of a time holding anything you conquer when you can't convert it easily.
Also, think about, as a Daimyo, if you want to convert to Catholicism. Probably a good idea and you'll need to decide relatively early.
Going to try and reply to all your points one by one.
I am coming around to the colonization line of thinking and figure I'll take Expansion first. Will let me get a few more provinces under my belt before I tackle the Shogunate. :happy:
I've already considered Defensive due to the numerous suggestions, and I might be a fool, but I figure that the extra damage will at start be very useful since I have no "equal" foes and hence no real need for morale or attrition to defeat anyone. If after uniting Japan someone like Ming or Westerners get land on the island and I have to get into prolonged slugging matches I'll probably lose anyway, defensive or not.
As for the Ming... he is the "noobies" of our entire group, and a rather passive player, hence we allowed him the biggest player on the field. Sure he can dominate everyone if he has the will and know how, but right now he seems content on just racking up prestige and trying to defend himself from the hordes.
Hmm, religion is actually a good idea from your points. I intend to stick with Shinto and hence must be able to support my faith elsewhere, so I figure I'll roll with that! Renewed idea list below!
I prefer offensive over defensive because +1 shock. If you get a 4-5 shock general early, you pretty much rule the battlefield.
Exactly my thinking. It's not likely that any asian country is going to get a tech lead anytime soon anyway, and that +1 shock will at the start rule the fields.
Okay, so here's the revised list.
- Expansion
- Offensive
- Religious
- Economic
- Quantity
- Innovative
- Naval
- Quality
Hoping that it will take me to some serious heights, and it looks like I will need it. Timurids just crushed Delhi and formed the Mughal Empire, the Ming are fighting against a the Mongols in a passive war, Korea is building what looks like an invasion fleet... somewhere, and Ceylon + Makassar just signed an alliance.
