Japanese Annexation of USA in '38!

[bbasgen]

I'm sure this must be a known strategy. I decided to play Japan from 1936, and essentially I built all infantry for 6 months, then I declared war on the US, took Wake, then Pearl Harbor without too much difficulty. I then landed in San Diego, and pilled my 27 divisions there and spread out. Using this infantry plus my TAC, I took one territory after the other, with very modest trouble.

At the beginning of 1938, I took panama easily (only a garrison in defense). Then, a very bold move -- I landed 9 divisions outside DC in Dover. Within a month I sacked DC, NYC, and Boston, meeting essentially *no* resistance.

By July of 1938, I was able to annex the USA. I have a TON of resources now (which Japanese needs, of course). I never declared War on China, but Communist China offered me an alliance (WTF?), and while I was clicking away I accidently accepted, so now I'm in war with the Nationalists. I'm sure they'll take awhile to dispatch -- but I reckon I'll take them out before the fall of France.

Odd, because I remember a year ago people complaining in HOI2 about how *weak* the USA started as. I guess that was never fixed!!

 

[Barkdreg]

Odd, because I remember a year ago people complaining in HOI2 about how *weak* the USA started as. I guess that was never fixed!!

well, US army was that weak in 1936.

 

[unmerged(46333)]

but if invaded there would be a 4million man army right there

 

[Sterkarm]

but if invaded there would be a 4million man army right there

Yes, but for some reason HOI2 has never really modelled a very quick conscription/draft program.

 

[Black_Shade]

I'm sure this must be a known strategy. I decided to play Japan from 1936, and essentially I built all infantry for 6 months, then I declared war on the US, took Wake, then Pearl Harbor without too much difficulty. I then landed in San Diego, and pilled my 27 divisions there and spread out. Using this infantry plus my TAC, I took one territory after the other, with very modest trouble.

At the beginning of 1938, I took panama easily (only a garrison in defense). Then, a very bold move -- I landed 9 divisions outside DC in Dover. Within a month I sacked DC, NYC, and Boston, meeting essentially *no* resistance.

By July of 1938, I was able to annex the USA. I have a TON of resources now (which Japanese needs, of course). I never declared War on China, but Communist China offered me an alliance (WTF?), and while I was clicking away I accidently accepted, so now I'm in war with the Nationalists. I'm sure they'll take awhile to dispatch -- but I reckon I'll take them out before the fall of France.

Odd, because I remember a year ago people complaining in HOI2 about how *weak* the USA started as. I guess that was never fixed!!

you actually dont have to build any infantry at all. Just make sure your HQs are upgraded to the 1939 version and put them on offensives and rush them to the major IC provinces of the US. You can land in pearl harbour, then move to san diego, and then on to colon/eastern seaboard. You use the bulk of your land forces on the west coast, since your initial landings are there thats where the US sends there army. Using your HQs on the eastcoast landings, you can grab over 60% of the US ic without a fight (youll grab the other 20% on the west coast), and its game over. The US will at most, if you attack right, will have 15 land divisions, and you can set up behind rivers with smaller numbers while the rest of your forces grab the VP's.

I managed to annex them in march 37 and ship all but a few cavalry divisions for partisan duty back to japan in time for a war against china. I released california and texas, and spent a good bit of manpower (almost all of it, in fact) garrisoning the eastern US. The war in china was essentially a stalemate for over a year while i waited for more manpower to build up my armed forces.

 

[bbasgen]

I've been greedy for the US IC, so I have not liberated. As a result, my Supply Effectiveness is in the toliet, and thus, my troops in China are pretty bogged down (Oct, 1940). I'm sure I'll win in few months, but I was hoping for a quicker victory.

Haven't bothered to garrison the US at all. Instead, I just have 18 divisions there spread out, so when a province revolts one division crushes it.

 

[Mattias]

Yes, but for some reason HOI2 has never really modelled a very quick conscription/draft program.

IMHO this is the reason WC is too easy in the 1936 scenario (and why minors are difficult to defend).

It also makes it impossible to model the war-economy for minors (including Poland) - even if they were dictatorships they simply couldn't afford prolonged wars with their conscript-armies fully mobilized (because nobody manned the factories when the workers fought at the front). In HoI they either have oversized armys in peacetime or (like France or the Scandinavian contrys) have too small forces to defend against a fast attack (IRL Finland was saved by mobilized troops, not a standing army [~9 divisions + several separate battalions mobilized vs ~3 brigades standing army).

This partly applies to Germany as well, IRL they had to go to war quite early to feed their army with resources stolen from occupied contries.

(IMHO this is very well simulated in Victoria were every conscript soldier leaves a hole in the production - this makes it quite possibly to defend ones contry from a agressor but ruins the contry if the war drags on for a longer time - WW1 anybody. ) /M

 

[X_MasterDave_X]

someone should add an event, where the US is getting about 50-200 Divs after some 2-3 months conscripting time, if a nation conquers the first province in the USA (only mainland). And second, the US should have at this moment full IC´s. This event should only fire prior to 1942.

Such an event could be made also for SU. But maybe with less troobs (say something 30-50 Divs) because the SU had an Army from 1936 on.

This would be a drafting event.

I think every bigger nation should have such an event. But it should take some months until this troops arrive.

And second, the event scripter should think about, that this free troops should only fire, if someone attacks prior of the historical War Outbreak of this country.

Unfortunatly i cant script events....

 

[Black_Shade]

I've been greedy for the US IC, so I have not liberated. As a result, my Supply Effectiveness is in the toliet, and thus, my troops in China are pretty bogged down (Oct, 1940). I'm sure I'll win in few months, but I was hoping for a quicker victory.

Haven't bothered to garrison the US at all. Instead, I just have 18 divisions there spread out, so when a province revolts one division crushes it.

this is why i puppet california and texas, for the supply issues. You actually only lose about 35% of the US IC by doing so, the majority is on the east coast/midwest, plus you get full effectiveness from the rares and oil in these 2 areas (texas produces like 250 rares a day.....). I chose to garrison the US because my TC was like 1000/350 or something crazy like that, when i garrisoned it went down about 250/350. While it does mean i had to wait tell about mid 1938 to finish off china (didnt have the divisions to do so prior due to low manpower), it was a fairly easy fight.

There is one downside to texas and california- their AI doesnt build air units/ships. If you puppet the US, they behave like the normal US does and build a lot of ships/air units for you, but texas and california only pump out basic infantry.

 

[krieger11b]

Could imagine how badly beaten the Japanese army would have been if they tried that? The amount of civillians that would be out there fighitng on the line with their own weapons. Supply would be a nightmare for Japan too, because we still had a decent Navy in 36.

 

[Acheron]

Guys, couldn't the rapid drafting not be represented by militias? Like in the case of an early invasion of mainland USA, churning out militias to hold off the Japs until you got enough regular inf to drive them back?

I guess the game assumes many men at peace-time job while you are at peace, and just forgets about all the mobilization thingies.

Hmm, an idea:
In peacetime, you can set units on "demobilized" just like you prioritize them now. These units have no org at all, and must regain it ocec war starts or you de-demobilize them. They also can mvoe only by strategic redeployment, so if attacked before remobilized they get killed.

 

[unmerged(55294)]

Could imagine how badly beaten the Japanese army would have been if they tried that? The amount of civillians that would be out there fighitng on the line with their own weapons. Supply would be a nightmare for Japan too, because we still had a decent Navy in 36.

It does not go that way, in the game there is a nanjing massacre. They would probably shelled the resisting towns and cities.

 

[Spruce]

but if invaded there would be a 4million man army right there

no there would be a 4 million man militia "army", militia build times are not that long ...

 

[GeneralHannibal]

I think CORE's going to have mobilization events so that will fix that.

 

[mib]

Could imagine how badly beaten the Japanese army would have been if they tried that? The amount of civillians that would be out there fighitng on the line with their own weapons. Supply would be a nightmare for Japan too, because we still had a decent Navy in 36.

If they did that the IJA would have a perfect excuse to slaughter every man, woman and child in America.

 

[The_Kaiser]

After reading this thread a few new ideas come to mind. Why cant you destroy manpower in a province. If I am wrong, just laugh at my ignorance, but as I see it, you cant strategic bomb the manpower. As if bombing didnt kill enough people to affect manpower...

You can do anything when you know history, Japan can take US early because US doesnt mobilize anything before 1938. In terms of the crazy nature of the game itself, the Soviets are way too strong in 1941. I dont care about numbers, Stalin destoryed his core of generals, yet you dont see this effect in game. The Russian army was poorly equiped, but you will run into 1941 infantry when you invade. Personally I think that Russia should be penalized until 1942 with limited amount of "new units" (meaning 1941 infantry) and bad generals. Hell when you purge the generals you still have those WWII heroes you can upgrade to Field Marshall off the bat with exp of 2 or 3. The reason why im ragging on this is that I got into a war with the soviets and had a hard time because they were loaded with upgraded units. This was not the case at all IRL. Howerver I feel im preaching to the perverted.

 

[unmerged(45706)]

After reading this thread a few new ideas come to mind. Why cant you destroy manpower in a province. If I am wrong, just laugh at my ignorance, but as I see it, you cant strategic bomb the manpower. As if bombing didnt kill enough people to affect manpower...

.

Hmmm, after the war the allies were surprised how few people they actually killed with their bombing raids. It could be interesting tocompare the amount of bombs they dropped on German cities and the death toll amongst civilians (500.000). They had expected to have killed several millions.
Which is understandable in it's own way. The sight of complete cities in ruin and the stories of bomber crews returning from flights over Hamburg, Dresden or Pforsheim must have made quite an impact.

 

[unmerged(19063)]

If they did that the IJA would have a perfect excuse to slaughter every man, woman and child in America.

As opposed to the gentle, loving way the Japanese would've cuddled the Americans otherwise?

Americans would rather die than submit to a foreign power.

 

[mib]

As opposed to the gentle, loving way the Japanese would've cuddled the Americans otherwise?

Americans would rather die than submit to a foreign power.

As opposed to say, killing 5000 people in each city every day.

 

[LogisticEarth]

^^^^That's assuming they can retain enough control to do that in the first place. The US is a huge chunk of territory, and in the 40's most of the population was spread out all over the country.

As opposed to the gentle, loving way the Japanese would've cuddled the Americans otherwise?

Americans would rather die than submit to a foreign power.

Yeah really. If invasion had happened in the 30's or 40's there would have been a resistance movement that makes the Iraqi insurgency look like childsplay. Remember that America is a very heavily armed society, up untill a few years before the 36 GC starts any joe-blow on the street could buy Thompsons and BARs. Even today there's almost one civilian owned gun for every man women and child in the US. Not to mention that a huge number of people are competently trained in thier use because of this familiarity. Combine that with a national history and identity that revolves around revolution against opression, and you've got a nightmare for any conquoring forces.

I'd probably say there should be some massive partisan levels for certain countries, like the US and Japan, untill there is some sort of complete capitulation event a la Bitter Peace.

On a mildly related topic: I've heard that Patton actually stashed a bunch of tanks out in the Mojave Desert. If the Japs invaded he figured we could stop them at the Rocky Mountains. In the interm, partisan forces could recover these tanks and attack the Japanese from the rear. Now THAT would be a cool scripted event!