Japan: worth becoming Emperor of China?

[heliostellar]

I'm playing a Japan game, and I can't really attack anyone because of the lame Mandate of Heaven mechanics where China guarantees everyone on this side of the globe. I can expand through colonization and maybe a little through the East Indies with conquest. I cannot attack Korea because I know that my amphibious assault is going to meet death stacks from Korea and China.

Does it make sense to try to take on Ming one-on-one and take the Mandate from them? I've already defeated them 4 times in defensive wars.

 

[makaramus]

depends on your gameplay but do it after ming is shattered if you gonna do because else you may tank un needed mandate only

 

[heliostellar]

depends on your gameplay but do it after ming is shattered if you gonna do because else you may tank un needed mandate only

They are not shattering. In fact, I have not seen them shatter since before MoH.

 

[heliostellar]

My primary goal is to invade Korea at the moment, and maybe Vietnam, but both have the magic guarantee for being Ming tributaries. They won't accept me as a tributary. I think they are pissed that I colonized Taiwan.

 

[Cookiepie]

Being emperor of china was typically bad before the recent nerfs, and now it's an outright trap card. Unless you have some specific goal in mind, never take EoC, its main purpose atm is to nerf/harm Ming.

 

[heliostellar]

Being emperor of china was typically bad before the recent nerfs, and now it's an outright trap card. Unless you have some specific goal in mind, never take EoC, its main purpose atm is to nerf/harm Ming.

That's what I was thinking, but the guarantee they give everyone combined with their limitless manpower from their other tributaries means that any goal involves some kind of war with them.

 

[SaucyBaron]

That's what I was thinking, but the guarantee they give everyone combined with their limitless manpower from their other tributaries means that any goal involves some kind of war with them.

You CAN take EOC it's just not optimal for blobbing. The problem is that you pretty much have to have annexed 90% of Ming before you can afford to take mandate, and then your whole reason for taking Mandate is null

 

[Cookiepie]

That's what I was thinking, but the guarantee they give everyone combined with their limitless manpower from their other tributaries means that any goal involves some kind of war with them.

See if you can offer to become a tributary in a war with them/keep an eye on if they want you (tends to shift real quick). If you cant solve it I guess it miiiiight be worth grabbing eoc, and shoving it onto some random opm, but doubt it.

 

[Plantagent]

Build lots of ships, wardec Ming, destroy their navy and blockade their coastline. Devastation tanks mandate harder than non tributaries.

If you can sneak in a landing, occupy a non fort province for easy getaways and use that to siege down a fort, or better - Beijing, do that. Take a fort if you can, lots of money after you tank their Mandate if you can't.

While that's going on, wardec Korea or Dai Viet or whoever. Ming won't be called in, I think. Destroy their navy and ignore them until you finish the Ming war, and take what you want.

It's not like any of these countries can actually hurt you. Pretty sure you can separate peace among when you declare on a tributary, and you'll be tanking Mandate when that happens, so it'll take forever, but you'll win.

You can also take exploration and head for Zimbabwe so you can be filthy rich. Move your capital to Australia region - Papua - and you can make trade companies.

 

[makaramus]

They are not shattering. In fact, I have not seen them shatter since before MoH.

with 1.24 they do quite often since they can no longer merc spam with low mandate

 

[Less2]

Well you should undoubtably declare war on them with the Mandate of Heaven CB just to take land if anything. 50% province cost discount and no dip cost is the most godly CB imaginable, especially if you throw diplomatic ideas and/or Age of Reformation's bonus on it.

Whether to take the Mandate itself? If you are using (and abusing) Shogunate government, hell no. If you want to expand heavily without requiring gamey stuff to avoid mandate loss, no. But otherwise it's not too bad of a tradeoff. Just know that if you end up getting even a once province land border with some European major that you'll need to give the province to a vassal or tributary unless you want to march to Paris to avoid your empire crumbling around you.

If you can't become a Chinese tributary try and declare a simultaneous war on Korea before you wrap up your next defensive war with China (or just declare a trade war and blockade them), which will avoid them joining with Korea. Take some Korean land, put some forts on mountains, abuse those and you should be able to annihilate Chinese stacks all day long.

 

[Kathandis]

Why would you want to be emperor of China when you rule glorious Nippon already?

From the sounds of what other people are saying though probably not worth it. Just take the land itself and save yourself a headache.

 

[TenshiN]

Independent Daimyo government > Everything else. So nah.
Also, Mandate sucks if you want to actively expand.