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Hister

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Does any good step by step tutorial/AAR exist on how to play Japan?

I haven't really grasped all the aspects of the game and would therefore like to see what do experienced players do with Japs. I'm interested in all the aspects of the game, from production, diplomacy to war - you name it.

Any help is much appreciated.
 

Hister

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That would be really nice of you. I think that new players that haven't had HOI 1/2 prior to AoD should be able to get step by step instructions how to properly play a nation. Only one country can be played this way, it is enough for the newbies to grasp all the things that need to be learned and it is way more easier this way then reading AoD tutorial which doesn't give you a clue of how your land and naval armies should be composed for example.

Questions like do I have to wait one in-game day before I set my sliders are a no brainer for experinced players but would make first time players a much easier job understanding the mechanisms of the game.

If someone would be so kind to actually make a video tutorial (on youtube) would make things much easier to understand.

I've onyl tried a couple of nations in vanilla HOI 2, then went with CORE since it is way more realistic and plausible but haven't came that far with it. I haven't played it much 'cos I've always had problems with the basics so I basically run my nation into ruins. Was waiting for AoD to become more polished and I belive it came close to this now so I wanna play it. The problem is I lack the basics.
 

Hister

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So I started a Japan 1936 campaign.

Is it okey to build factories in Osaka and Tokyo (5 each) since I have quite an apparent lack of resources from the start and new factories only eat additional resources?

I've also started with building infrastructure in Tokyo, Nagoyu, Osaka and Shikoku - the most IC rich provinces. Is this fine if one seeks to expand Japan's economy?

I've also started expanding naval base in Kwajalein since (to level 4) it seems to me this is necessary later on with the USA war. Is this okey or should I dismiss it?

What land and/or naval units should I build? I really don't have a clue how this production should look like to resemble historical Japanese production.

I have the following in the production lines:
- 1 serial production of level 3 carrier (3 of them),
- 2 simultaneously built level 3 heavy cruisers
- 2 simultaneously built level 3 destroyers
- 2 simultaneously built serial productions of transport escorts (20 each)
- 1 serial production of convoy transports (99 of them)

... and that's pretty much all I can build. Any tips?
 

DarkArk

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Ok, I've played a fairly successful Japanese campaign in ARMA and just started out one in AoD. I'm too lazy to do a full AAR, but some tips for Japan players.

Some general tips:

-Japan is a country with some fairly severe limitations, and you're not going to be able to mitigate these easily. The key thing is to not fight the Chinese and the USA at the same time. Like history, it is a very quick way to lose. You need to pick your battles well, and know when you can't win a fight. I'm not sure is AoD changes the Pearl Harbor event, haven't gotten that far in my campaign yet.

-Don't go to war in 1936 with China. I don't know if it was the SMEP mod that I've been using, but I was completely unprepared to fight them then, and my forces ended up stalling far short of where they should have been. Whoever thought having all of Japan's army should be 1918 infantry deserves a talking too. Wait for Marco Polo Bridge in July, 1937. You'll be in much better shape.

-Build factories. Japan's industry is crap, and you will get the resources to run it eventually. I did three runs of five factories, and while it eats into unit production they're worth it in the end.

-Make money, and trade it for the resources that you need. Enjoy the time that you're not at war, and use it to build up your stockpiles of oil and rares. I just let the AI trade, while banning export of anything but money and energy, and it got all of my resources running in the green. Tell it to prioritize oil and rares. When nations start embargoing you, you'll be glad you have some in reserve.

-Screw your navy. This is more of a play style than a hard and fast rule, but I never build new ships beyond the ones that in production in the start, besides more carriers. Keep that one production line going. Light ships can be build pretty quickly if need be, and you'll be researching better ones before you fight the US. The rest should be devoted to building and upgrading your army, and building your industry up. China is going to be tough, and your navy isn't going to help. You also have a far superior navy to the US for a while.

-Upgrade! This might seem counter-intuitive, but 1936 infantry are much, much better than the 1918 crap you start out with, and the Chinese won't have 1936 infantry for a while. I only had a single corp on a production run, with artillery, engineer, and armored car brigades, with a fair amount devoted to upgrading the forces I currently had. I did fine once I started fighting China. Cavalry are also good to have, so use the cavalry that you start the game out with like your tanks, since you aren't going to be building tanks (I got away with building some light tanks in ARMA, but not in AoD). Also strip the AA and AT brigades off your garrison divisions and give them to your proper army.

-Opt for org regain, and -15% supply consumption ministers. You're always going to be outnumbered in China, and speed doesn't mean a whole lot due to the terrible infrastructure. Having your troops back in the fight quicker is an advantage. I opt for the less supplies so that I can take something off Japan's overworked industry.

-I'd skip the navy bases at the moment. Preparing for China should be the only thing you do, besides building a few capital ships and getting naval tech. Defeating China is something that you simply must prepare for, because if you don't you're going to lose.

-As for sliders, Japan has pretty decent ones at the start, and your war with China will give you full Hawk lobby and Interventionism. You don't want to go full Central Planning quite yet, because you need the money to buy resources. I'd go with standing army for the first few years.

Anything else?
 

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DarkArk, thank you so much on shedding light on how Japan should be played! Am much delighted to see your first post devoted to me! :)

My problem was that I never really read the tutorial in it's fullest 'cos I would usually start playing games after I come home from work or in the evenings/nights and I was never rested enough to be able to fully comprehend what it is said in the manual. I've been more into it yesterday and it resolved some questions I had before. I like this game more and more!

I've come to late 1937 with my first try but will follow your advice and start the game anew.

Don't go to war in 1936 with China.
I would never do that since my army sucks at the start of the game. Hope CORE team advices the devs of AoD about proper OOB's (not that I know much about them but knowing things are as were is a big immersion). Will wait for bridge event.

-Build factories. Japan's industry is crap, and you will get the resources to run it eventually. I did three runs of five factories, and while it eats into unit production they're worth it in the end.
3 runs of 5 each it is then from the beginning of the game - that's 15 IC daily.
What about infrastructure in the most factory rich provinces? Worth building? If yes do you fast build them since it is stated in manual they are one of the things worth fast building (considering Japan's situation)?

How much money do you spend for research teams - I have it set at 75-80%, that okay?

I just let the AI trade, while banning export of anything but money and energy,
I also find more convenient letting AI trade for me - I allowed exports of money and supplies since energy seems to be in the negative at the beginning of the game. Will check again.

Tell it to prioritize oil and rares.
Okey, I will - should I put the slider to the rightmost position for those two resources or what? How much of these two resources should I have stored prior I embark on war against China? What about supplies?

-Screw your navy. This is more of a play style than a hard and fast rule, but I never build new ships beyond the ones that in production in the start, besides more carriers.
How many carriers should I put in the serial?

I only had a single corp on a production run, with artillery, engineer, and armored car brigades, with a fair amount devoted to upgrading the forces I currently had.
Okey, I shall make one serial of infantry (how many are reasonable?) together with with 3 serials of artillery, engineer, and armored car brigades. What are armored car brigades good for?Do they excell in rough Chinese terrain and give the edge over Chinese troops?

Also strip the AA and AT brigades off your garrison divisions and give them to your proper army.
Will do, never would of thought of that myself.
Preparing for China should be the only thing you do, besides building a few capital ships and getting naval tech.
Should I start building those few capital ships from the beginning of the game? Is it worth for Japan to research techs in advance? Which ones? Improved carrier comes to my mind.

I don't have a clue how to properly organize starting navies. I know that BB's need screens but that is pretty much it. How did you organize your own navy at the start of the game, where have you anchored them? I don't know what composition should carrier based fleets have. How many carriers is fine to have in single unit, what escorts do carriers need. Is it okey to have them with battleships or not? Should any of the old starting units like first tier destroyers be dismissed to save supplies and oil or are they worth keeping?

How do you organize your starting armies? How many units (and which ones) do you employ for the task of defeating China in July 1937?

-As for sliders, Japan has pretty decent ones at the start, and your war with China will give you full Hawk lobby and Interventionism. You don't want to go full Central Planning quite yet, because you need the money to buy resources. I'd go with standing army for the first few years.
Hmm, soon after the game begins you get this "1.1.2." or something event that gives you 2 choices - which one is better strategically for Japan? I went with "support the coup" but that puts me to the full central immediately.

Thank you a lot for now, if I'll have anything else to ask I will do so when the question pops out during my gameplay.

P.S. Some of my units on the islands don't get a supply rout to them which causes attrition and a need to constantly add tiny bit of IC into reinforcements which is annoying. It's strange because I've got supply set to automatic and I also can't set supply rout for that island manually. What should I do?
 

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Ok, so you really don't know what to do. If you can wait for about 14 hours I can go over your post in detail, but it's late where I am and I need to sleep. Your intuition for the game hasn't formed yet. Which is fine, it will with time, and I don't mind helping you. Japan is one of my favorite countries to play because you have to think when you play as them, while still being able to conquer most of the world.
 

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Yeah, I'm totally green on the game, haven't figured basic things yet so your help would be really much appreciated. Good night to wherever you are and see you here tomorrow :)
 

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As a point for you as a new player, I wouldn't recommend Japan as a first campaign. Learn with a nation like Argentina or Brazil, where you won't be the center of attention, and you can learn each part of the game in small increments. Then go for the USA, just so that you feel powerful and learn what conquering the world is like without any real fear of losing. Then something like Japan or Germany, where you do have to work for your victories. Then you can try something sadistic like Communist China :D (only campaign I ever straight up lost was as them) Just some advice.

What about infrastructure in the most factory rich provinces?

Does that actually do anything past 100%? To my knowledge all of Japan is at 100%. Anyway I still don't think infrastructure is a good investment. Keep in mind I'm not using CORE, just vanilla AoD with a few event mods.

should I put the slider to the rightmost position for those two resources or what?

No, because I think that's telling the AI how much you want. I put oil in the middle and rares at about 1/4 over. It got me enough.

that's 15 IC daily.

Yes, and it will net you a 15 IC increase by 1940. Building factories are in general a contested thing to do among players. I wouldn't be surprised if someone else came into this thread and told me I was wrong. As countries like Germany and the US, probably it is useless. But as Japan, you're not in a war that you can lose until 1942 anyway, and you're basically not expanding your navy at the expense of factories, so that you can build more later and get more tech slots.

How much money do you spend for research teams

As much as it takes to have all the slots filled. Japan only starts out with five slots, and it needs to do more research. Prioritize machine tools, aircraft carriers, and tac bombers.

Speaking of tac bombers:

Try and build a few more. You might not be able to because you have no spare production, but try, maybe in 1938 or so. They help in China a lot, keeping the Chinese org low. Use interdiction. Use the ones that you do have at the beginning of the game constantly. It will build up the experience of your bomber commanders a lot, helpful when you start fighting the USA.

Is it worth for Japan to research techs in advance?

Never, except for improved machine tools, which you should start right after you finish basic machine tools. Kawasaki Heavy Industry is a great tech team. Nothing else is worth the incredibly slow speed of research, and there is always something else you can do in the mean time. Capital ship tech perhaps in the six months before its historic year, but only if you can start a production run right after you finish the research.

I shall make one serial of infantry

You misunderstand me. A corp is three units. You should start three units of infantry, with one each of those brigades. Make them indefinitely. The gearing bonus will eventually get so high that you'll make a new corp every six weeks or less. Don't stop until you're sure that you'll be able to beat the Chinese. Then switch over to marines. Also have a production run of garrison with MP brigade, to help control China. You'll probably still get a few revolts, but they'll help.

What are armored car brigades good for?

They're relatively cheap and they give you another edge in quality over the Chinese. These units are designed to be grouped into corps of three, led by Lt. Generals. The three different brigades complement each other. I would say just get another unit of artillery, but they're expensive in AoD, and ACs are cheap. So one of artillery.

Should I start building those few capital ships from the beginning of the game?

No. Keep your lone carrier serial going, upgrading it as you increase your tech. I'd start building in 1938-39, which is still in time for the war with the US.

Also, I made a mistake when I wrote my first post. I was playing a Fascist US campaign, and I forgot about the navy in San Diego :p, which made me think that they had gimped the USN in AoD. Turns out I was wrong, and the US battleship fleet does still exist. So the USN is better than the IPN, so you do need to build quite a bit. Of course, war with the US avoidable, and not declaring war screws up the ai in all sorts of fun ways, or declaring in 1943. That peacetime penalty to the US is quite large.

As for navies, I'd recommend reading this article:

http://www.paradoxian.org/hoi2wiki/index.php/Naval_Primer

True it's HoI2, but the basic principals remain the same. I don't think AoD has a wiki, but many things are basically the same anyway, and if they're not they're usually simpler.

How many units

All of them but the garrisons. Have a force in north China, and keep a force in reserve in Japan or Taiwan, to invade Shanghai and advance to Nanking and beyond. Make sure you have HQs in both forces, one should be enough for Shanghai. Don't lose them (it's really hard to lose land units short of being encircled anyway), because you won't be able to build more.

I never support the coup. It isn't worth the dissent hit, and the loss of relations.

Don't know about the convoy thing. Weird, just go under trade, go to convoys, and tell it to automate everything. Saves you major headaches (except when it refuses to send escorts when the convoy is going into a warzone).

I'll have anything else to ask I will do so when the question pops out during my gameplay.

Feel free. Though perhaps this should be moved from the AAR forum.
 

PB-DK

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Japan is a masokists wet dream ;)

a few short points on Industry; Infrastructure works as a multiplier to IC and resources so that at 100% infrastructure you get 100% out of your Industry and resources and at 200% you get 200% out of them (in reality it is more like 180% or something like that) so Infrastructure is well worth their investment in High resources/high IC provinces as you will get a large return of investment. this also works to some degree for low IC/high resource provinces but... japan does not have many of those...

Tokyo, Osaka and Nagoya are the 3 prime targets for industrial investments that pay off quickly.

(just building infra in tokyo will double the effective IC from tokyo from 20ish to 40something)
 
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Hister

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As a point for you as a new player, I wouldn't recommend Japan as a first campaign. Learn with a nation like Argentina or Brazil, where you won't be the center of attention, and you can learn each part of the game in small increments. Then go for the USA, just so that you feel powerful and learn what conquering the world is like without any real fear of losing. Then something like Japan or Germany, where you do have to work for your victories. Then you can try something sadistic like Communist China (only campaign I ever straight up lost was as them) Just some advice.
Yes I know but I've already tried Argentina and Brazil but since not much was going on I got bored - especially so since I wasn't sure what strategy I was supposed to have with them ;) I'm burning for Japanese and what can't kill you makes you stronger. I believe I'll manage, after all, I've plunged straight into Magna Mundi mod for EU3 with only playing one game with vanilla.

For now I'll stick with vanilla AoD to get the feeling for it so that I will be able to appreciate mods more when I'll apply them.

No, because I think that's telling the AI how much you want. I put oil in the middle and rares at about 1/4 over. It got me enough.
Okey, will do as you say. I indeed had some problems when I've put sliders to the max for oil and rares.

Yes, and it will net you a 15 IC increase by 1940. Building factories are in general a contested thing to do among players. I wouldn't be surprised if someone else came into this thread and told me I was wrong. As countries like Germany and the US, probably it is useless. But as Japan, you're not in a war that you can lose until 1942 anyway, and you're basically not expanding your navy at the expense of factories, so that you can build more later and get more tech slots.
I'm glad that because of me you learned something new :) Looks like it's much more effective to only build infrastructure in the 3 mentioned provinces then building 3 serials of IC in them. Thanx PB-DK!

As much as it takes to have all the slots filled. Japan only starts out with five slots, and it needs to do more research.
Hmm, what I meant is that I'm interested in the slider where you allocate money to research speed. I have it set to around 80% to make other things realize more easier but I'm wondering if this is not okey for Japan since 20% malus is quite big.

While we are at it how much money should I allocate to intelligence slider and in what countries should I send spies to? What missions are best to be performed? Nationalist China and surrounding warlord states would come to my mind due to incoming war with them but is it worth it? I have big doubts since I have very low success percentages for any of the possible missions. So how should general intelligence side of game look for Japan?

You misunderstand me. A corp is three units. You should start three units of infantry, with one each of those brigades. Make them indefinitely. The gearing bonus will eventually get so high that you'll make a new corp every six weeks or less. Don't stop until you're sure that you'll be able to beat the Chinese. Then switch over to marines. Also have a production run of garrison with MP brigade, to help control China. You'll probably still get a few revolts, but they'll help.
Ah I see! I had immense problems when the war with China started due to low infantry division number. What I did was have one serial of infantry division without any brigades attached. I additionally had 3 serials for each of the brigades that I attached to units later on.

So how should my army composition in Manchuria look like just prior to war with China? I don't really understand how to properly organize your land units (I have to admit I haven't had time to really study this topic in the manual).
Should I have multiple corps each consisting of 3 infantry divisions with 3 different attached brigades? How many of such corps should be waiting for attack in one province?
How do I use my cavalry when attacking and how should I organize them - also in corps of 3?

I'll now read this link to see how my naval units should be organized. I know that in AoD things have changed on the naval side but I suppose fleet composition advised there works also for AoD. Thanx for the link! This sort of info should have been in the manual in the first place!

No. Keep your lone carrier serial going, upgrading it as you increase your tech. I'd start building in 1938-39, which is still in time for the war with the US.
Okey, will do that.

I never support the coup. It isn't worth the dissent hit, and the loss of relations.
You get 3% dissent hit which goes down really fast if you raise that slider a bit that is used for lowering dissent. About the relations I didn't care since I thought that really doesn't matter much but you seem to suggest otherwise - so what comes along the loss of relations? Less trading deals maybe?
I'll start this campaign anew and will not support the coup this time.
Is the upper most choice always the historical choice countries made?

Don't know about the convoy thing. Weird, just go under trade, go to convoys, and tell it to automate everything. Saves you major headaches (except when it refuses to send escorts when the convoy is going into a warzone).
Yeah I have it set like this but that Northernmost island just doesn't get supplies, maybe it's a bug but more likely me not grasping what I see there ;)
Infrastructure in China and Manchuria is really low and that makes my units that are waiting for the attack there have a certain percentage of strength loss. The supply map shows those provinces in the red. Is it possible to avoid this to some degree or you just have to deal with it?

(just building infra in tokyo will double the effective IC from tokyo from 20ish to 40something)
How many infrastructure need to be put in one serial to come from 100% to full 200% (180%) in one province?

P.S. If moderator want's to merge this thread with this one I would be glad to since it will be easier to find everything on one place for new players.
 

BSPiotr

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For the "island not in supply and can't manually put supply ships there" issue, send a division to the island. It'll automatically be able to be supplied (I use this for some islands in the Pacific when playing as USA since I like to have a base close to Japan that is supplied + navy storage).

For the "little infra in China" you kind of have to deal with it until you can repair it (Repair IC is hilariously important in a lot of cases, see my USA Railroad AAR last 2 posts.)

And for the infrastructure: Each infrastructure you place improves the relative amount of effective IC. thus, for 100% to 180% you'd do as many serials as needed to get it to 200% infrastructure :)
 

unmerged(226974)

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Each infrastructure you build is 10%, so it will take 10 in serial to go from 100% to 200%.
When I campaign in China as the US late in the war I build some infra as I go; I charge forward until ORG and supplies are exhausted then stop to recover for a month or so. I also expand airfields; your air units will suffer if too many of them are packed into small airfields.
 

Hister

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Thanx guys - I'm slowly starting to understand things better. I'm still a bit puzzled as how should my army formations be formed like prior to invasion. Is it better to have 3 different brigades attached to my infantry corps or 3 same ones? Does one engineer brigade in a corp unit help other two units in the corps or not?
 
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PB-DK

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i usually use 2 to 3 divisions per corps, and i tend to keep the brigades at the same speed malus and im not very concerned with air power as japan has defacto air superiority when they upgrade to interceptor 2 and will keep it for the rest of the war against china.

for the attack against shanxi my usual set up looks something like this (light means no brigades or only fast ones
North:
1 corps 2-3 infantry divisions light -towards yuling
1 corps 2-3 infantry divisions light -towards datong

Center- Changde/rehe:
1 Army 6 divisons (1 HQ 5 Infantry heavy) -reserve or part of a pincer
3-5 corps of 2-3 divisions mixed units -encircle beiping
1 corps cavalry -datong
(+ garrisons to defend the airfield)
1 Bomber group

South- operational goal yuling:
1 Army
2+ Corps (light to help encircle beiping, heavy to go to yuling)
1 Cav Corps -take and hold yuling for as long as possible
1 corps of heavy infantry to be landed in yuling as soon as the cavalry takes control
1 Shore bombardment group of BB's and other hulks
1 Amphibious group to land troops
1 Bomber group
1 Fighter group

Formosa group:
1+ infantry corps in preperation for attacking either shanghai or guanxi
1 naval bomber group
1 fighter group
several fleets and squadrons of ships and subs to hunt the chinese convoys and ships

Machuria:
take control of the Manchu forces and deploy some to help take on shanxi, you will need to reorganize their entire force but it wont take long. just remember that they are essentially weak copies of your Japanese and also that they will disengage from low odds combats at times
 

Hister

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Thank you very much guys - this will help me immensly!

My 4th take on Japanese didn't go that well. The reason being the following:

At the start of the campaign I cancelled all ship production besides that one carrier and having 3 serials of infrastructure of which one was set at 3x speed and also one serial of factories in Tokyo. I set the production on priority priority. I also haven't send any spies to any countries rather then reinforce my own intelligence in Japan. (By the way, I see the whole spy game system very unrealistic since histirically I can't immagine certain countries delaying research etc.) I hopped that that would allow for all my units to upgrade way prior the Marco Polo conflict so that I would have time to make adittional infantry divisions to help open the second front in the middle or in the South of China. Boy was I wrong! Some of my soldiers weren't even upgraded to 1936 infantry by the time war errupted. I copted to try my luck anyway but MASSIVE stacks (120+ divisions in neighburing provinces!) of Chinese infantry arrived to the border so much so that I wasn't able to do much progress there. I managed to reach that river only in the Hohhot province. In the South I only had 1 corps with HQ and managed to take only one province from Guanxy before I faced overwhelming enemy stacks there and couldn't breach the line.

So I suppose for my 5th try I should only have that carrier built while I devot all my spare resources to unit upgrades. I hope that will enable me to built infantry in time for marco polo. Mybe I'm doing something terribly wrong on the economic side, dunno.

I'm also puzzled how am I suppose tu properly use that attack sinhronization box. Since the time displayed in the game is not local time but Greenwich time how on Earth can I know what time of the day is where my units are positioned? I am supposed to make attacks early in the morning but since displayed time is not local time I don't have a clue how to deal with that.

How is bombard neighburing province with artillery prior to attack supposed to be carried out - how many hours prior to actual attack of units and how many corps should be set to artillery attack the enemy?
Can someone give me a step by step example what I should do prior to attack?

If I get answeres to these last questions I think I won't have any more beginner questions since I will understand majority of game mechanics.