Japan, to unify or not to unify?

[original182]

Hey all,

I've been replaying Japan a lot as a colonial power, and this time I want to war as Japan.
In my latest playthrough, suddenly a thought occurred to me, what if I leave Japan as a shogunate and not unify it?

The benefits of remaining a shogun and not unify Japan are:
1. 30% tax income and 50% manpower modifier at 100 shogun influence
2. Ninjas! Which gives huge bonus to spies and nice random +15 prestige packages
3. Becoming Catholic

The benefits of unifying Japan:
1. Removes the -50% naval force limit
2. Gaining Kyoto the CoT (but does it outweigh +30% tax?)
3. Option to have royal marriages

Is there anything else I'm missing? If no, what do you all think? Do you think an un-unified Japan can be better?

 

[DDRJake]

Absolutely not worth it if you already gave Japan cored

 

[original182]

Absolutely not worth it if you already gave Japan cored

You mean it's not worth not unifying Japan? So a unified Japan is better? Please explain how so.

 

[DDRJake]

Sorry, I wrote that from my bed while still half asleep.

If you have already got cores on all or most of Japan then it is absolutely not worth it to unify Japan. The benefits of being Strong Shogun would be stripped away and all you should get is +50% naval forcelimit and a cored Kyoto. If you embargo Japan you could probably force Kyoto's CoT to stagnate to death (your goods would provide no value to its CoT) and build your own one. +30% tax is a hell of a lot and the lack of ships you can overcome by just building light ships for tarrifs, which are cheaper, or with the National Idea and high level naval buildings.

I've also heard reports that if you gain infamy through wars with foreign powers, that infamy goes to Japan rather than yourself.

 

[safferli]

Well, but you'll never play as "Japan" if you don't unify...

 

[unmerged(80402)]

Well, it is almost like with HRE, when you are the only country in HRE. Does it pay back to unify the hre then? Answer is : NO.

But on the other hand, if you are already christian, and westernized, you might want to be japan just for bigger fleet. I mean, at some time the +30% tax, while it is nice, but it give much smaller fleet anyway. the +30 tax actualy give you like 1/5 or 1/6 of your income (dependant on how much tax you get from other things). And you get 50% smaller fleet. Also it is just nice to be japan XD.

 

[unmerged(404737)]

Imho reasons to unite Japan are:

1) As Daimyo your diplomatic capacity is limited (no PU with other countries (esp. with Ming)).
2) There are some bugs when interacting with other countries. For instance: Sometimes I can't sue for peace (esp. with hordes) (screen pops up only for a fracture of a second)
3) When in war against other countries you are allied with Japan. Japan sometimes make peace and all your captured provinces are gone again.
4) It's true: your infamy goes to Japan. So playing as Daimyo is basically World Conquest for free. BUT: Japan becomes a "dishonorably scum", you are allied, and even you as Daimyo will have a Dishonorably-Scum-Casus Belli against Japan.

So I would say, not playing as Japan after unifying is possible seems to me as some sort of exploit. I don't think, these unique mechanics are WAD.
In my games I normally conquer SE-Asia as a Daimyo and change to Japan at some point, when I need more diplomatic options or have to deal with hordes.

 

[arbiter6]

I noticed something funny. As japan, you can (quite gamey I know) release one of the former daimio and reconquer him immediately, giving a nice -5 -> -10 infamy and 0 infamy on reconquer.

I know it's not meant to be this way but if that's not an advantage, what is ??? XD

 

[DDRJake]

I noticed something funny. As japan, you can (quite gamey I know) release one of the former daimio and reconquer him immediately, giving a nice -5 -> -10 infamy and 0 infamy on reconquer.

I know it's not meant to be this way but if that's not an advantage, what is ??? XD

You can do that with any nation you release whome you have cores on, or do you mean that you don't suffer the 5 year truce?

 

[unmerged(80402)]

Well, if he is right, this is sooo... LOL...

 

[Nerga]

Japan is better for 1 reason you are ignoring. You can PU as Japan. You can PU Manchu, Korea and Ming as Japan. They are the same culture group as you, that means you can in 3 wars get like 100 free cores.

 

[unmerged(80402)]

Yes, well, this can realy outweight the +30% tax...