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Czert

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how it will be modeled in game ?
since we all know that before war it got a realy nice stock of resources (for 2 years to run only from stores to be exact), but since in hoi 4 stockipes are removed. How it will be dealed?
 

Zupanicarr

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They have said that they're putting more effort into the Pacific war, I'm guessing that means putting more effort into modeling Japan as well.
 

Rubidium

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Hopefully they put more effort into the distribution of resources on the map as well... Invading the Soviets as japan in HOI3 was basically pointless..
To be fair, it more or less would have been historically as well (we know that there is oil, but they didn't, and my understanding is that they wouldn't have been able to find it with 1940s science). There's a reason the "Strike North" faction lost out.
 

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To be fair, it more or less would have been historically as well (we know that there is oil, but they didn't, and my understanding is that they wouldn't have been able to find it with 1940s science). There's a reason the "Strike North" faction lost out.

I did a bit of research about resources in the far east a while back when I was playing HOI3 and I found that there were a few deposits of various important metals that were not represented in the game and some others that were developed after the war.. I forget the exact details, I'm gonna go dig up my old posts I made at the time.

I think that if Japan did invade they would have built up the infrastructure and extraction of those resources and would have been better able to exploit them.. The Soviets would have had to ship them across Siberia so I think its reasonable to assume they wouldn't have focused too much on exploiting these resources when they had many more closer deposits..

I also think the northern strike is a viable option as Japan if you are trying to stay neutral from the main conflict and just capitalize on a distracted Soviet Union.. I did this once in HPP with mixed results.. On the one hand I managed to push the soviets back quite far, but in the end I was screwed over by an unrealistic diplomacy system. The long and the short of it is that even though the allies were at war with the Soviet Union and that the Soviets were half way through Germany already the allies wouldn't accept my less extreme Paternal Autocrat regime into the Allies even though keeping the Soviets fighting on 2 fronts was the only way to succeed in the long term.

I am hoping that HOI 4 has a diplomacy system that is more flexible..
 

FNK_Drake

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberian_natural_resources

There's some info there, but it takes a bit of digging and research to get an accurate idea.. What I do know for sure is there should be more Iron in an around the Lake Baikal region as there were 2 mines in the area.

I also think what they really need todo to improve the game for Axis players in general is make it so that resource production is tied to Infrastructure and make it so that many of the potential resources that could be taken by the axis are under developed from the start.. After all, they had a surplus of resources and no need to expand mines and infrastructure in some backwater colony or the far east of Siberia for example.. This would give the Axis players a good reason to capture and focus on expansion of production of these resources and infrastructure to ship them home. I don't think we will have resource stockpiles anymore so its not like the allies can hoard them either, so they would have no need to expand production.
 

Czert

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idealy to simulate undeveloped - but known - rsources at that time will be that we will have actualy two types of resources - used and undeveloped.
used will act normal as we know them, and unddeveloped will requre building of minning/drilling facilities to be able to use them (same as we improve infrastucture), and yes, it will be technology to be able to build them, since not every country was able to build on thier own.
Can devs answer onm this ? it will be posible to create two types of resources ? or if not in basic game, it will be modable ?
 

Premu

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idealy to simulate undeveloped - but known - rsources at that time will be that we will have actualy two types of resources - used and undeveloped.
used will act normal as we know them, and unddeveloped will requre building of minning/drilling facilities to be able to use them (same as we improve infrastucture), and yes, it will be technology to be able to build them, since not every country was able to build on thier own.
Can devs answer onm this ? it will be posible to create two types of resources ? or if not in basic game, it will be modable ?

Hm, how many new mines, oilfields, etc. did Japan build in occupied territory? Normally, such a task will take a few years - first the actual location of the deposits have to be discovered, then you have to build the mine and the infrastructure to transport all that stuff to the next harbor.
 

Jorvikson

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Hm, how many new mines, oilfields, etc. did Japan build in occupied territory? Normally, such a task will take a few years - first the actual location of the deposits have to be discovered, then you have to build the mine and the infrastructure to transport all that stuff to the next harbor.

Many given tbe chance

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Manchukuo
 

1alexey

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Hm, how many new mines, oilfields, etc. did Japan build in occupied territory? Normally, such a task will take a few years - first the actual location of the deposits have to be discovered, then you have to build the mine and the infrastructure to transport all that stuff to the next harbor.
USSR did that a huge lot, as in most industries, USSR lost between 30 and 60% of output of natural resources to occupation, and had to develop alternative deposits very fast. It took between 0.5 and 2 years to get Soviet industry to ~90% of pre-war output, while a lot of major deposits were still occupied in 1943.
 

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Many given tbe chance

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Manchukuo

Manchukuo wasn't just any old occupied territory, though. They held it for five years before the resumption of hostilities in 37.

That's not quite the same as invading Siberia and developing the resources as you go.
 

Porkman

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Manchukuo wasn't just any old occupied territory, though. They held it for five years before the resumption of hostilities in 37.

That's not quite the same as invading Siberia and developing the resources as you go.

But the Japanese had already surveyed a lot of that area. They occupied the Russian Far East from 1918 to 1922 and tried to settle there before being kicked out. They would have had a bit of a head start when it came to development since they'd already done a lot of the preparatory work.
 

ingwe

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I definitely think it needs to be easier for japan to get enough resources (as long as they can ship them back to the home islands). In HOi3 taking the whole of China and the east indies helped but never seemed to yield enough resources for my liking. With those conquests, the sky should be the limit for japanese production as long as they are investing in IC and resource extraction. The problem was that they couldn't really invest in resource extraction.
 

potski

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But the Japanese had already surveyed a lot of that area. They occupied the Russian Far East from 1918 to 1922 and tried to settle there before being kicked out. They would have had a bit of a head start when it came to development since they'd already done a lot of the preparatory work.

Are you sure about this? Japan's forces took part in the Allied intervention in the Civil War in the Soviet Union, and was part of a force including US troops which invaded the Far East, occupying Vladivostok, for the purpose of securing the supply lines of Czechoslovak forces heading west into Russia. I've no idea what Czech forces were doing in this region - how did they get so far from home?

Further reference is made to Japan sending troops into Blagoveshchensk, on the Amur River on the border with Manchuria which was still part of China. But they did not stay long. There is some suggestion that some Japanese troops traveled as far as the Trans-Baikal province, but not in large numbers and not for long. Most of their forces were in Vladivostok and the surrounding Maritime province. They evacuated Vladivostok in 1922 and the recapture of the city by the Far Eastern Republic marked the official end of the civil war.

But during the civil war Japan also found an excuse to occupy Northern Sakahlin, where they stayed until 1925. Unlike the Maritime province where there were civilian Russian authorities, there appears to have been none in Sakahlin. No doubt the Japanese had the time and manpower from the south of the island to survey it, and were well aware of the resources there. But there is nothing I can see that they did the same in the Maritime or Amur provinces. No doubt they picked up valuable and detailed intelligence about these areas, but whatever they knew about the mineral resources of the region, it still wasn't enough to make them consider it worthwhile to invade in 1941, never mind earlier. They came to (parts of) Siberia, they saw, but they never thought it worthwhile to conquer.
 

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Are you sure about this? Japan's forces took part in the Allied intervention in the Civil War in the Soviet Union, and was part of a force including US troops which invaded the Far East, occupying Vladivostok, for the purpose of securing the supply lines of Czechoslovak forces heading west into Russia. I've no idea what Czech forces were doing in this region - how did they get so far from home?

Further reference is made to Japan sending troops into Blagoveshchensk, on the Amur River on the border with Manchuria which was still part of China. But they did not stay long. There is some suggestion that some Japanese troops traveled as far as the Trans-Baikal province, but not in large numbers and not for long. Most of their forces were in Vladivostok and the surrounding Maritime province. They evacuated Vladivostok in 1922 and the recapture of the city by the Far Eastern Republic marked the official end of the civil war.

But during the civil war Japan also found an excuse to occupy Northern Sakahlin, where they stayed until 1925. Unlike the Maritime province where there were civilian Russian authorities, there appears to have been none in Sakahlin. No doubt the Japanese had the time and manpower from the south of the island to survey it, and were well aware of the resources there. But there is nothing I can see that they did the same in the Maritime or Amur provinces. No doubt they picked up valuable and detailed intelligence about these areas, but whatever they knew about the mineral resources of the region, it still wasn't enough to make them consider it worthwhile to invade in 1941, never mind earlier. They came to (parts of) Siberia, they saw, but they never thought it worthwhile to conquer.

They supported Kolchak and then afterwards Semyenov. They sent 70,000 troops which was far in excess of anyone else, including the Czech Legion they were ostensibly saving. They sent over 50,000 Japanese settlers. However, this was an army thing and it wasn't supported by the Japanese Diet or the public, also, no one wanted to fight the Soviet Union for control of the area after they won convincingly.
 

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Are you sure about this? Japan's forces took part in the Allied intervention in the Civil War in the Soviet Union, and was part of a force including US troops which invaded the Far East, occupying Vladivostok, for the purpose of securing the supply lines of Czechoslovak forces heading west into Russia. I've no idea what Czech forces were doing in this region - how did they get so far from home?
Czechoslovakian Corps, formed of respective nationalities from prisoners of the Army of Austria-Hungary in Russian captivity (>1.6 million men from the Hapsburg Empire surrendered to the Russians), and being transferred to the Western Front, as part of the agreement, after the February Revolution in Russia. Only way out back then was through Vladivostok.
 

Czert

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Manchukuo wasn't just any old occupied territory, though. They held it for five years before the resumption of hostilities in 37.

That's not quite the same as invading Siberia and developing the resources as you go.

truth, but i thought ithat my idea of having od developed/undeveloped resourced to be buildable or even existing resources expandable (as we sow expans of mines/drill all around globe during wwii to suport more needing industy than ever before) will be takes as universal for all countries.
And for japan case - well, without posible resources to ba taken there, it have no point at all to attack su.
 

Czert

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Are you sure about this? Japan's forces took part in the Allied intervention in the Civil War in the Soviet Union, and was part of a force including US troops which invaded the Far East, occupying Vladivostok, for the purpose of securing the supply lines of Czechoslovak forces heading west into Russia. I've no idea what Czech forces were doing in this region - how did they get so far from home?
It is easy dear watson, during wwi was part of austia-hungary empire, which did have common borders with russian empire, and as you may know, there was war between these states. So czech in russian empire army come from 3 posible sources - settlers/workers in russia pre- wwi (small part) and then deserters/pows (biggest part).
And japanese securing of vladivostok area was not alturistick - to create "save heaven" for anti-bolshevik forces. They hoped that anti-boslhevisk lose, they will control that area and de facto annex it, when civil war end, since bolshevicks will have no will to take it back in new war.
 

DarkCruor

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberian_natural_resources

There's some info there, but it takes a bit of digging and research to get an accurate idea.. What I do know for sure is there should be more Iron in an around the Lake Baikal region as there were 2 mines in the area.

I also think what they really need todo to improve the game for Axis players in general is make it so that resource production is tied to Infrastructure and make it so that many of the potential resources that could be taken by the axis are under developed from the start.. After all, they had a surplus of resources and no need to expand mines and infrastructure in some backwater colony or the far east of Siberia for example.. This would give the Axis players a good reason to capture and focus on expansion of production of these resources and infrastructure to ship them home. I don't think we will have resource stockpiles anymore so its not like the allies can hoard them either, so they would have no need to expand production.


Ehhh, the thing is the oil at this time in Siberia was mostly in the Urals and the Caucasus. Since the 1970s however Western Siberia has overtaken both in Oil production. While Eastern and Middle Siberia (and now the Arctic) has always had oil its only been recently where it has become actually reliable to extract and easier to move (this is because of advancement in pipeline technology) or even found. Now another project that has begun being worked on is oil in Sakhalin. Which was not known about at this time (otherwise Japan would have exploited this immensely).

Here's an interesting article on Russian energy and power production.

So yeah, I don't think Japan either would have been able to exploit Siberia during wartime. They could have completely eliminated Allied Lend Lease to the USSR which was very important.
 

varsovie

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idealy to simulate undeveloped - but known - rsources at that time will be that we will have actualy two types of resources - used and undeveloped.
used will act normal as we know them, and unddeveloped will requre building of minning/drilling facilities to be able to use them (same as we improve infrastucture),

Arsenal of Democracy did exactly this, resource production and IC of a province had a little multiplicator linked tot he level of infrastructure. Helps to model resource access and vertical centralization.