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persianfan247

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It does not seem from the dev diaries and screenshots that the Emperors of Japan will feature in the game at all. I thought it would be cool if you could play as the Emperors and return them to power in an early Mejji restoration. This thread is for discussing this.
 

DarkCruor

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In game you can do this. You can unite Japan as either a Daimyo and conquer everything (or vassalize or diplomatically take everything), or as the emperor peacefully annexing all your vassals. If you do the latter way, Japan becomes a Feudal Monarchy after fully united.
 

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In game you can do this. You can unite Japan as either a Daimyo and conquer everything (or vassalize or diplomatically take everything), or as the emperor peacefully annexing all your vassals. If you do the latter way, Japan becomes a Feudal Monarchy after fully united.

JAP is led by the Shogun, not the Emperor.
 

Skrytwitch

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Is no one interested in this?
I would be! I can't say for sure, but it looks like the rulers coded into the game for Japan are the Ashikaga shogunate and not the Emperors. Giving the daimyos a casus belli to restore the Emperor to power would be quite cool I think, but with the hundreds of other possible cool additions that could be added to the game it could be awhile before Japan or any other given country gets new content.
 

aitaituo

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The Emperors had zero political power in this time period and the Meiji Restoration kind of came out of left field due to a several factors that happened to come together at just the right time (weakness of the Shogunate, end of Sakoku, ambitious daimyo, foreign intervention). This could theoretically be modeled in game, but I'm not sure what would look like in gameplay terms other than a Time of Troubles like event chain.
 

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Don't want to see this, but I do want to see Japan get more attention, and I expect it is one of the first places to receive some DLC love.

Ultimately, I want to (and we probably will) see an entirely new system(a far better shogun system than what was in DW)/events/decision based in Japan.

Saying that, no. I do not think the Emperor should be a political/military player in this time period.

There should totally be events, and there should even be a Papacy like relations structure with the Emperor on top that could give the reigning Shogun problems. However, I don't think the Emperor should be able to overturn Samurai rule now. It took very specific economic, and political circumstances for Emperor Meiji to take control of the government (things that did not exist during the Sengoku Jidai), and even then (it can be argued) in name only.

A better request/question would be, why does Japan even exist/is formable? It should be the Ashikaga (or after them, the "Your Clan Name Here") Shogunate. Japan as a polity should not exist on the map, but instead there should be a Japan-HRE type system that encompasses Japan in game.
 

possumcorpse

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A better request/question would be, why does Japan even exist/is formable? It should be the Ashikaga (or after them, the "Your Clan Name Here") Shogunate. Japan as a polity should not exist on the map, but instead there should be a Japan-HRE type system that encompasses Japan in game.

Because it is an alternative history game. Germany didn't exist in this timeline either and you can form that.
 

Rubidium

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A better request/question would be, why does Japan even exist/is formable? It should be the Ashikaga (or after them, the "Your Clan Name Here") Shogunate. Japan as a polity should not exist on the map, but instead there should be a Japan-HRE type system that encompasses Japan in game.
You'd have to give it new tags for every possible clan (assuming you wanted a separate tag for them as shogun vs. them as random daimyo). One "Japan" tag avoids that. Anyway, while the shogunate is the shogunate, it still rules over a country called "Japan", much as we talk about "England" instead of "the Tudor Kingdom". Besides, the Tokugawa shogunate had far more power over its vassals than the HRE did over its members.
 

riknap

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You'd have to give it new tags for every possible clan (assuming you wanted a separate tag for them as shogun vs. them as random daimyo). One "Japan" tag avoids that. Anyway, while the shogunate is the shogunate, it still rules over a country called "Japan", much as we talk about "England" instead of "the Tudor Kingdom". Besides, the Tokugawa shogunate had far more power over its vassals than the HRE did over its members.
there's quite a difference though.
the shoguns are essentially in theory the regents of the emperor of japan - during that period, the emperor was pretty much a puppet figure. with your example, it would pretty much be the "Regency of England" rather than the "Kingdom of England".
while the end gameplay result is still the same, it is a concern that does interest people interested in that period and era (ie. the sengoku jidai ), which is just as famous as its chinese equivalent (both of which are just as important in public culture )
 
Last edited:

Elusivehonor

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Because it is an alternative history game. Germany didn't exist in this timeline either and you can form that.

See the green hat under my name? I've played the EU series before. I'm familiar with the concept.

Also, you could say alternate history until you are blue in the face, but it still won't change the fact that Paradox's handling of Japan's unique situation is inadequate. Its not entirely their fault, as development costs have to be spread on many different countries, and systems.

I'm just not satisfied with the portrayal of the Japanese situation. I'm not against alternate history.

That said, there are many ways we can suggest improvements to the current system, and with Paradox's DLC model it is entirely possible they will change/add dynamics to playing in Japan. You don't have to simulate history, or the Japanese political situation exactly, but you can approximate to make Japan fare more interesting. Why not have a Shogunal HRE system (yes, have Japan be 50-60 provinces) to determine who is Shogun? Why not try and simulate (via events, and decisions) the political/diplomatic realities (these guys were absolutely brutal, btw) of the Sengoku Jidai? Why not make it a struggle to remain Shogun after the war is over, and have the late-game be filled with trying to disarm your vassals? Why not have a system where the Emperor acts as the Pope, and you get tons of dynamic events from him?

You'd have to give it new tags for every possible clan (assuming you wanted a separate tag for them as shogun vs. them as random daimyo). One "Japan" tag avoids that. Anyway, while the shogunate is the shogunate, it still rules over a country called "Japan", much as we talk about "England" instead of "the Tudor Kingdom". Besides, the Tokugawa shogunate had far more power over its vassals than the HRE did over its members.

I understand the tag reason, but I still think its a rather bad system. Indeed, I think an HRE-like system is far better than a single unified country.

As far as Tokugawa control...I'm not sure if that's entirely correct. To be certain, they were not fighting against each-other after Ieyasu's assumption of power. That said, a potential reason for their uncontested control was the lack of external conflict. Japan isolated itself (sakoku), and did not face a foreign crisis until the mid-1800s. What is very clear is that in the face of a weak Shogun, the domains were very quick to retract their support.
 
Last edited:

possumcorpse

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See the green hat under my name? I've played the EU series before. I'm familiar with the concept.

Also, you could say alternate history until you are blue in the face, but it still won't change the fact that Paradox's handling of Japan's unique situation is inadequate. Its not entirely their fault, as development costs have to be spread on many different countries, and systems.

I'm just not satisfied with the portrayal of the Japanese situation. I'm not against alternate history.

That said, there are many ways we can suggest improvements to the current system, and with Paradox's DLC model it is entirely possible they will change/add dynamics to playing in Japan. You don't have to simulate history, or the Japanese political situation exactly, but you can approximate to make Japan fare more interesting. Why not have a Shogunal HRE system (yes, have Japan be 50-60 provinces) to determine who is Shogun? Why not try and simulate (via events, and decisions) the political/diplomatic realities (these guys were absolutely brutal, btw) of the Sengoku Jidai? Why not make it a struggle to remain Shogun after the war is over, and have the late-game be filled with trying to disarm your vassals? Why not have a system where the Emperor acts as the Pope, and you get tons of dynamic events from him?

I wouldn't be against that but adding that doesn't mean a player shouldn't be able to change to a different political system and form japan as a monarchy under certain circumstances.
 

DarkCruor

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The form of government of JAP at start is "Shogunate" led by the Ashigaka.

Since Japan was historically united under a single shogun during the period of EU4, we need to have ways for that to happen. Since they are effectively vassals, the ruler of Japan can always annex all their daimyos diplomatically or military, giving them a decision to change from the Shogunate into a feudal monarchy, from which it can change into more efficient forms of government as technology progresses.
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