Japan needs to be seriously debuffed OR the Chinese AI needs to be much better.
- Thread starter PurpulaPhoenixum53
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That is a problem as volunteering can effectively decide the Sino-Japanese war which is kinda strange taking the huge number of real JAP/CHI troops facing each other into account.
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The Flying Tigers were IRL volunteer forces sent from the US to China.. so I'd disagree on nerfing volunteers. Makes sense that volunteers from any of the allied majors would make JAP life hard.. flying tigers record was a >20:1 kill ratio.
If anything the US could be scripted to send those, perhaps an event with an option to send more units and land forces as well..
If anything the US could be scripted to send those, perhaps an event with an option to send more units and land forces as well..
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Perhaps buff increasing the value to the AI to protect their homeland, especially when it gets invaded. Find it weird that Australia doesn't move its divison away from Europe once Japan lands in Australia. However, I agree with the sentiment that the AI USA should trained to invest heavily in navy, so its ready to seriously contest the Pacific against Japan. Also, potentially, the UK as well should also seriously reposition its navy once the German naval threat is... curbed.
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Frankly, the AI for Australia should move it's divisions back into the pacific region when Japan enters the war against the allies, not as late as when the Japanese is already in Australia.
Australia isn't the first place the Japanese invades, and the Australian AI should be intelligent enough to start preparing for the eventuality that it might be next by shoring up it's defenses in it's home region early.
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Absolutely. I think that's a major problem with the AI. Once the war starts, it focuses on the first target regardless of the general world situation. The AI still has long way to go.
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By nerfing volunteers we don’t mean make their performance worse.
Instead, the number of volunteers should be reduced. We couldn’t agree how exactly, but here are some ideas
- only a part (5 or 10%) of total manpower or divisions can be send as volunteers.
- sending volunteers should increase WT
- reduce XP gain from volunteers.
That’s why it’s a suboptimal idea and not bad one.
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Instead of capping the amount of manpower sent or so, wouldn't a far more practical solution be to cap how many members of the same faction volunteers can be sent to? That seems like a less complicated solution with far less likely odds of causing problems elsewhere to me at least
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I am wondering if China was buffed or Japan nerfed without anyone noticing. Finished my France campaign and am doing an achievement run as USA, again on historical, and am again watching Dai Nippon step on their crank in China (as of early 1941).
Here's a screenie from tonight showing Chiang rolling over the Japanese Army. All I have done to help was send him an attache and buy some chromium from Guanxi. The Soviets of course sent volunteers and I saw at least two medium tank divisions so that no doubt made a big difference, but all those Red Army troops went home in June 1941. (My France campaign Germany never invaded USSR, so Ivan fought in China until Japan surrendered). Not sure if this is a fluke or if there was a change since I rarely saw the United Front hang on and never saw them handily win before 1.9.3:
If experience is a guide my coming invasion of Japan will go easily, since Tokyo never got their hands on that sweet sweet steel and tungsten I will likely be facing 8 INF/1 ART divisions and 6x INF and CAV garrisons, none of which will be able to pierce my "dollar store space marines" (40w INF with a medium tank battalion). The Imperial Japanese Navy did give me a bit more trouble than usual this time, you'd think I would learn to quit rushing into the Marianas...
If experience is a guide my coming invasion of Japan will go easily, since Tokyo never got their hands on that sweet sweet steel and tungsten I will likely be facing 8 INF/1 ART divisions and 6x INF and CAV garrisons, none of which will be able to pierce my "dollar store space marines" (40w INF with a medium tank battalion). The Imperial Japanese Navy did give me a bit more trouble than usual this time, you'd think I would learn to quit rushing into the Marianas...
Logistics, logistics, logistics. Pushing into inner China should be borderline impossible (though not literally so), which is what happened IRL - Japan was able to smash through those areas with at least decent infrastructure but was then stonewalled by the absolute lack of anything worth the name of "road" when talking about moving towards the rest of China. In general, bad terrain really isn't that bad in this game, which should be fixed.
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China received a minor buff in the form of additional factories and Communist China had an increase in military factories that was offset by a reduction in civilian factories. The net result was an overall increase in 2 military factories which may help to explain the results that you saw. See the table below.
| HOI4 Version | Country | Military Factories | Naval Dockyards | Civilian Factories | Total Factories |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1.8.2 | China | 10 | 1 | 18 | 29 |
| 1.9.3 | China | 11 | 1 | 20 | 32 |
| 1.8.2 | Communist China | 2 | 0 | 4 | 6 |
| 1.9.3 | Communist China | 3 | 0 | 3 | 6 |
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I say mine: In my games Japan left the home islands defenseless. I had to (or with Italy, or Germany, or the fascist UK or any other nation) send troops to protect his home while they kicked the Chinese. Because in my games, the USA often attacked Japan and in one game they even helped me against the USSR with the war plan against the USSR, making me the landlease (the one via decision)
I've seen China winning from time to time before 1.9. It seems to come down to how AI Japan does naval invasions and how AI China handles them. It was a LONG time ago when AI Japan consistently stomp AI China through Beijing.
With all the discussion re volunteers, a temporary fix would be to limit volunteers to shared ideology. (You can diversify ideology somewhat as well without losing realism or giving way to needless complexity.) Ofc, limiting number by faction makes realistic sense and game balance sense.
At the end, if we really want to give emphasis to the volunteer mechanics beyond Spanish Civil War, the opposing belligerents need to be able to cut supplies off the the volunteer units on the sea. Otherwise, and without what may be artificial restrictions on sending volunteers, volunteer is always going to be an exploit.
With all the discussion re volunteers, a temporary fix would be to limit volunteers to shared ideology. (You can diversify ideology somewhat as well without losing realism or giving way to needless complexity.) Ofc, limiting number by faction makes realistic sense and game balance sense.
At the end, if we really want to give emphasis to the volunteer mechanics beyond Spanish Civil War, the opposing belligerents need to be able to cut supplies off the the volunteer units on the sea. Otherwise, and without what may be artificial restrictions on sending volunteers, volunteer is always going to be an exploit.
That implies AIs are trained. They are not. They are pre-programmed probabilistic decision trees.
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true, if you as russia become Fascist, the AI continue to hate you, without reason
Since La Résistance I have yet to see japan beat China without massive lend lease and/or volunteers.
I’ve seen Japan win on three occasions
1. When I as Germany massively supplied japan with equipment (hundreds of aircraft and thousands each of infantry equipment, light tanks, motorised and support equipment).
2. When I sent some divisions to help out along with about 200-300 tactical bombers and infantry equipment for them and their puppets.
3. When I played as a largely non-interventionist USSR and the Axis overran the allies by 1940 and then the axis and the now fascist former allied countries sent big groups of volunteers to japan.
I have only seen japan take on the allies effectively once and that was where in the 2nd of the above the allies ended up fighting the axis, japan, USSR and Italy’s alliance all at the same time.
I don’t know if my experience is typical or if yours is but from what I’ve seen I’d probably buff the Japanese more for their base level if anything.
I’ve seen Japan win on three occasions
1. When I as Germany massively supplied japan with equipment (hundreds of aircraft and thousands each of infantry equipment, light tanks, motorised and support equipment).
2. When I sent some divisions to help out along with about 200-300 tactical bombers and infantry equipment for them and their puppets.
3. When I played as a largely non-interventionist USSR and the Axis overran the allies by 1940 and then the axis and the now fascist former allied countries sent big groups of volunteers to japan.
I have only seen japan take on the allies effectively once and that was where in the 2nd of the above the allies ended up fighting the axis, japan, USSR and Italy’s alliance all at the same time.
I don’t know if my experience is typical or if yours is but from what I’ve seen I’d probably buff the Japanese more for their base level if anything.
Have never seen Japan dominate to the extent of the OP. it's a rare occasion they even go down the strike south path. I've never seen Japan in Australia or Hawaii or even Burma on historical or ahistorical. More frequently they are in Vladivostok.
Did see them absolutely demolish China in short order in a recent run though
Did see them absolutely demolish China in short order in a recent run though
It's so weird as I see the exact opposite. I can't even remember the last game where Japan didn't at least take China and often Raj and the Indies as well. The last Italy game I played Japan took China early and they steamrolled Asia to the point the US was afraid to engage them. Total US losses in the war was 4 destroyers and a bunch of convoys as the entire navy hid.
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This also happens in most of my games. Both the UK and the US completely forget about the Pacific. It's like they had a fixed globe in the Allied War Room showing Europe and Africa, and they don't know there's literally half of the world behind it. China, India, the whole South East Asia and even Australia and New Zealand are conquered by the Japanese, and it seems they didn't even try to defend them. In my last game Japan took Hawaii from the US in 1942: its' 1946 and it seems the US completely abandoned the Pacific, they simply don't care if the Japanese took such a crucial strategic point, because they're busy landing in Italy and Italian controlled South Africa...
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