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CPT_ACHAB

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snip
...Ming almost always ally defensively (i.e. gain that 'defensive' attitude towards their allies). Which means, they never seem to help their allies invade someone, but will agree to defend them in case they are attacked.....
Snip

In my game I have to witness that Ming took an active part to a war between Korea and Japan invading one of the island and quickly let me give to Korea what they were asking (Chikuzen province and release of Ainu and an ex daimyo)

Ming+Korea vs Japan is more than enough...

Fortunately was easy to vassalize and annex the two released entities and on a later defensive war to reconquest the lost province. In this second war Ming have not helped much Korea maybe cuz they were busy with other wars?

All in all Ifind playing the daimyo state an helpfull way to learn the game on a small scale
 

aitaituo

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You guys say OP was trolling, but I wouldn't even doubt his seriousness, considering the people I've met in otaku circles.

Shalom is the giveaway if the obvious errors that no serious Japanophile would make weren't enough.
 

Will Steel

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Finally, fellow Otakus... Oh how long I have waited for an anime/manga community on this forum.

Yeah, definitely. In my current game, it took about 100 years of colonizing the Philippines and the Moluccas, and doing other stuff on the side, but I eventually became strong enough to repeatedly crush Qing (who in turn had previously destroyed Ming). It's important to get Exploration and Quest for the New World very early, so that you can colonize a lot of the islands in South-East Asia, and get a large navy to protect yourself from invasions.

And what if they had to face Ming with just the Japanese homelands, and maybe with just Ryukyu and Ainu conquered? Or do they need extra overseas land to get enough power?

In my game I have to witness that Ming took an active part to a war between Korea and Japan invading one of the island and quickly let me give to Korea what they were asking (Chikuzen province and release of Ainu and an ex daimyo)

Ming+Korea vs Japan is more than enough...

Fortunately was easy to vassalize and annex the two released entities and on a later defensive war to reconquest the lost province. In this second war Ming have not helped much Korea maybe cuz they were busy with other wars?

All in all Ifind playing the daimyo state an helpfull way to learn the game on a small scale

Most of the time I see this pattern in my game - Ming just stays there focusing on internal management, then attacks Sarib Yogir (or whatever that tribe north of Tibet is). Meanwhile Korea invades Jianzhou and others and takes land. After some time Manchurian tribes become powerful and attack to retake their lands from Korea, and then Ming jumps in. And then they don't even win the war, just force a stalemate and a white peace.

Daimyos are a big help, considering that instead of having a single national navy with penalties, you have 10 different vassalized ones which make the entire number of Japanese ships larger. Same applies to the army, although then you'd have to fight the other Daimyo eventually.
 

Paul31264

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And what if they had to face Ming with just the Japanese homelands, and maybe with just Ryukyu and Ainu conquered? Or do they need extra overseas land to get enough power?

In the end, that all depends on the situation in the Chinese mainland. In my game, Ming was crushed by Manchu/Qing, so Ming fell apart into lots of Chinese minors, and Oirat, who are located to the west of Manchu/Qing, lost their first war against them, and have had huge debts they can't get rid of ever since. This all happened before I managed to unify Japan by the way. And when I finally did, the Chinese minors were all quarrelling amongst each other, and Oirat could barely hold Manchu/Qing back. Also, Korea was vassalized and then swallowed up by Manchu/Qing rather early. It was just very difficult to gain a foothold on the mainland, so I didn't really have a choice to do anything but colonizing. This allowed me to get a huge navy, though, so I was never under any kind of threat of invasion by the Chinese countries. It's pretty easy to hold them off while building up your strength, and then invade the mainland in an opportune moment. I'm 200 years in, and nobody has ever declared war directly on me. Qing was just always very busy with attacking his neighbors, and by now, he's too weak to pose a threat.
 

Itchel

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dis post offends me greatery it does not recognise the hard work the japanese put into their boats, There has to be more force limits +50% and +40 ship durability for the boats were folded over 5 thousand times!
 

ero_sk

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Komichywa (that's hello in Japanese to all you westerners)

I was playing EUIV recently as the nation of Nippom (Japan) and I noticed Japan's treatment in the game is very ahistorical!

My name is David (but my Japanese name is Ryu), I'm a 30 year old art major at the University of Michigan, I draw manga (Japanese Comics) as a side hobby and also minor in Japanese history up to 1500s, as you can clearly see I know a great deal about Yomatoe (ancient word for Japan) and I really care aboput how it's treated in game.

While the game is correct in having Japan divided by Daimyo (Japanese noblemen) at the start, it really has lackluster national ideas, especially in military! I should know, I got my Katana license 3 years ago and imported a Masamume Katana sword straight from Japan for $12,000. I've practiced with it every day, and I'm now good enough to cut clean through steel beams (for comparison, not even jet fuel can bend or melt steel beams!) I'm getting better every day, and I hope to impress many Japanese people with my knowledge of their powerful sword art.

(...)

Do you actually want to make some point or you're just trying to show off? Because half of your post is about you...
 

CPT_ACHAB

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I agree that it will depend on how the continent forces will evolve.

With a strong Ming allied with Korea, for Japan is almost impossible to overtake the area.

So they will have to exploit the Philippine and Moluccas areas to improve their situation.

Anyway is good to share experiences and see how the same area will be completely different depending on which nation is on top.
 

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Because everyone knows the Japanese islands were created by a katana striking the sea surface and then dropping little water drops back to the sea surface, each thus creating oh-so-divine Japanese isles...)

Spear, not katana.

The creation myth also gets the reward of Silliest Sexism Ever
 

Will Steel

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Do you actually want to make some point or you're just trying to show off? Because half of your post is about you...

Lol, you got trolled and you made that troll post successful by reacting to it.

In the end, that all depends on the situation in the Chinese mainland. In my game, Ming was crushed by Manchu/Qing, so Ming fell apart into lots of Chinese minors, and Oirat, who are located to the west of Manchu/Qing, lost their first war against them, and have had huge debts they can't get rid of ever since. This all happened before I managed to unify Japan by the way. And when I finally did, the Chinese minors were all quarrelling amongst each other, and Oirat could barely hold Manchu/Qing back. Also, Korea was vassalized and then swallowed up by Manchu/Qing rather early. It was just very difficult to gain a foothold on the mainland, so I didn't really have a choice to do anything but colonizing. This allowed me to get a huge navy, though, so I was never under any kind of threat of invasion by the Chinese countries. It's pretty easy to hold them off while building up your strength, and then invade the mainland in an opportune moment. I'm 200 years in, and nobody has ever declared war directly on me. Qing was just always very busy with attacking his neighbors, and by now, he's too weak to pose a threat.

What happened to Korea afterwards? I suppose that vassalizing Qing would actually give them an almost equal permanent ally who can be freely used as cannon fodder in offensive wars. Did the Koreans actually attack anyone later on?
 

manpaslop

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Please, I am tired of hearing samurais were elite troops in EUIV timeline.
awf8yh.png



The 1582 Cagayan battles were a series of clashes between the Spanish colonizers of the Philippines led by Captain Juan Pablo de Carrión, and Wokou (possibly Japanese pirates) headed by Tay Fusa. These battles, which took place in the vicinity of the Cagayan River, finally resulted in a Spanish victory.

This event was the only recorded battle between European regular soldiers against samurai warriors. This unique event pittedmusketeers, pikemen and Spanish rodeleros against Japanese and Chinese merchants (both legitimate and smugglers), fishermen, rōnin, and soldiers.[1] Spanish sources record the name of their leader as Tay Fusa, Tayfusu or Tayfuzu. This does not correspond to a Japanese name, but could refer to a medieval chieftain (大夫), called Dàfū in Chinese or Taifu in Japanese.[2] The pirates had 18 Sampans which are flat bottomed Chinese fishing wooden boat. The word "sampan" comes from the original Hokkien term for the boats, 三板 (sam pan), literally meaning "three planks" in their Chinese dialects.[3]

History[edit]

Japanese sampan-like river boat. Dating from before 1886 are relatively flat bottomed Chinese wooden boat.

Ronin, or masterless Samurai
Around 1573, the Japanese began to exchange gold for silver on the Philippine island of Luzon, especially in the provinces ofCagayan, Metro Manila and Pangasinan, specifically the Lingayen area. In 1580 however, a ragtag group of pirates forced the natives of Cagayan into submission. These raiders were called Wokou.

In response to the piracy, the Governor-General Gonzalo Ronquillo commissioned Juan Pablo de Carrión, hidalgo and Navy captain of the Spanish navy.

The general governor of the Philippines wrote to the king Philip II on 16 June 1582.[4]

"Los japoneses son la gente más belicosa que hay por acá. Traen artillería y mucha arcabucería y piquería. Usan armas defensivas para el cuerpo. Lo cual todo lo tienen por industria de portugeses, que se lo han mostrado para daño de sus ánimas.
The Japanese are the most belligerent people here. They bring artillery, many arquebusiers and pikemen. Body armor. All provided from the portuguese industry, showed to them for the bad of their souls (sic) ..."

Carrión took the initiative by utilizing the technological superiority of Western ships, and shelled a Wokou ship in the South China Sea, removing it from action. A retaliation came from the pirate leader Tay Fusa, who sailed toward the Philippine archipelago with 10 ships. To counter this, captain Carrión gathered forty soldiers and seven boats: five small support vessels, a light ship (San Yusepe) and a galley (La Capitana).[citation needed]

As they passed the Bogueador cape, the Spanish fleet encountered a Wokou Sampan. It had recently arrived at the coast and its sailors were abusing the native population. The Spanish Captain, although outnumbered by the Wokou, engaged in naval battle with theSampan, eventually boarding it. The Spanish rodeleros then faced armored Japanese ronin who were wielding katanas. The Wokou also had muskets, which had been provided by the Portuguese. The deck of the sampan became a battlefield, with Spanish pikemen at front, and arquebusiers as well as musketeers at the rear. Eventually the Spanish troops defeated the Wokou, thanks to the improvised parapet and the superior quality of Spanish armor and weaponry. The Spanish soldiers were also much more experienced with firearms than the pirates.[citation needed]The low accuracy of Japanese muskets was also reported to a Korean king during the Japanese invasions of Korea (1592–98) and in the early 1580s when wokou pirates had raided ships from Korea, China and Philippines.[5]

The flotilla continued down the Cagayán River, finding a fleet of eighteen sampans. The Spanish flotilla forced their way through using artillery, and disembarked onto the shore. They dug in, erecting the artillery unloaded from the galley in the trenches, and continually bombarded the pirates. The Wokou decided to negotiate a surrender and Carrión ordered them to leave Luzon. Pirates asked gold in compensation for the losses they would suffer if they left, which was outright denied by Carrión.[citation needed]

Afterwards the Wokou decided to attack by land with a force of soldiers six hundred strong. The Spanish trenches endured that first assault, then another. In response to Spanish pikes being seized by the Wokou soldiers, the Spanish oiled the shafts of their pikes in order to make them difficult to grasp. The thirty remaining Spanish were running low on gun powder after the third attack, which had almost breached the trenches. They left the trenches and attacked, routing the remaining Wokou. The Spanish plundered the Wokou's weapons that were left on the battlefield, which included katanas and armor, and kept them as trophies.[citation needed]

With the region pacified, and the arrival of reinforcements, Carrión founded the city of Nueva Segovia (now Lal-lo).

Pirate activity was sparse afterwards. The commercial activity was focused in Lingayen Bay, in Pangasinan, on the port of Agoo and consisted principally of deerskin trade.[citation needed]
 

*Aqua*

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Katanas are thrice as sharp as European swords and thrice as hard for that matter too. Anything a longsword can cut through, a katana can cut through better. I'm pretty sure a katana could easily bisect a knight wearing full plate with a simple vertical slash.
Harder blades shatter more easily. Katanas were superior because they were more flexible that western swords (which were quite hard and broke often) but harder than the flexible chinese swords (which weren't as sharp).

I still prefer the good ol' two-handed great sword. It could rip people in half in one swing and has superior reach. Because of it's awesome swing power it doesn't even need to be sharpened.

Also, I never understood why Americans pick a new name when learning a language.
It's quite common in language classes around the world to pick a name in that foreign language especially if the foreign and native languages are completely unrelated to each other.
 
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Paul31264

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What happened to Korea afterwards? I suppose that vassalizing Qing would actually give them an almost equal permanent ally who can be freely used as cannon fodder in offensive wars. Did the Koreans actually attack anyone later on?

I think you misread my post. Korea was vassalized and then annexed by Qing, not the other way around. Korea was honestly pretty weak in my game, and never got the chance to fight back.
 

aitaituo

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Please, I am tired of hearing samurais were elite troops in EUIV timeline.

Some pirates who were probably mostly Japanese in some fishing boats is probably not the best example, though I appreciate there are precious few examples of battles between regular Japanese forces and any other nation prior to WWII.

Harder blades shatter more easily. Katanas were superior because they were more flexible that western swords (which were quite hard and broke often) but harder than the flexible chinese swords (which weren't as sharp).

In general, the argument that katanas are the best swords generally comes down to it being more versatile in several ways than other more specialized swords. They're kind of the AK-47 of swords. My one problem with the claim is that the kind of katanas held up as paragons of edged weapons are generally Edo Period, when the rest of the world was rarely using swords for non-ceremonial purposes and Japanese swords were exclusively owned by wealthy aristocrats and their (sometimes former) retainers. It'd be more surprising if they were generally inferior to 15th Century swords from anywhere in the world.
 
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Will Steel

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I think you misread my post. Korea was vassalized and then annexed by Qing, not the other way around. Korea was honestly pretty weak in my game, and never got the chance to fight back.

Ah, my bad. In other words, Ming collapsed and broke up into all those little kingdoms by itself, and Qing capitalized on it but weakened itself in the process, while you kept growing stronger.
 

Paul31264

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Ah, my bad. In other words, Ming collapsed and broke up into all those little kingdoms by itself, and Qing capitalized on it but weakened itself in the process, while you kept growing stronger.

Yeah, pretty much. For a while, I thought, I'd never be able to get a foothold on the mainland, but in the end, it worked pretty well.
 
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