Japan idea groups?

[Castios]

Hello,

So I wanna discuss Japanese national ideas. Many people suggest that exploration is best as 1st ideas group for Japan, I am not so sure. Trade group is also super useful.


What do you think guys? Which group should I take first and which groups are great for Japan later on?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Exploration lets you go western decades earlier. Nothing else is remotely close.

 

[clockworkBabbag]

Hello,

So I wanna discuss Japanese national ideas. Many people suggest that exploration is best as 1st ideas group for Japan, I am not so sure. Trade group is also super useful.


What do you think guys? Which group should I take first and which groups are great for Japan later on?

Trade group? Useful? Japan is almost at the very beginning of the trade stream. Unless you want to move your trade node fairly far downstream, you won't get much benefit at all from more merchants (and are going to be working with a hefty penalty to collecting). Steer trade from Girin, collect from Nippon. Besides, Japan's national ideas (and historical flavor events) are built for being a closed nation that doesn't care about trade from the outside world.

Get Exploration as your first, because colonies will help you out a ton. Cutting off Russia's expansion into Siberia is also hilarious.

Influence is pretty good for vassal feeding on the mainland and for annexing any diamyos you have left. Unless you're actually planning on converting to Catholicism, Religious is by far going to be better than Humanist (and you get a ridiculous stability cost modifier, which is always handy). After that, idunno, the standard stuff. Military idea groups and administrative for coring.

 

[balmung60]

Since Japan has super discipline, you may want to stack Quality and Offensive and maybe also Economic and Religious (for the policies).

You also want Exploration for early westernization, and if you're doing that, you also want Expansion for the superspecialawesome CB.

Trade isn't worth it until you're at least as far downstream as India.

 

[Denkt]

Actually stacking quality on quality don't make that much sense because relatively increase in quality is less the more of it you got.
Taking exploration as first idea is probably the best choice for westernisation, then you can if you want drop it for a more useful idea.
Expansion after westernisation is great because of uber cb on other asian no western tech countries.
Religious + offensive give you uber conversion against heretics.
Administration should be picked, base your armies around mercs and you will not have many problems + cheaper cores.

 

[FloatingOrb]

Depends on what you are planning on doing. If you are going to stay asian, focus on a military conquest, then go trade to make use of those spectacular nodes. If you aren't then you pretty much have to westernize and take exploration.

If you are moving into the mainland I suggest trade, offensive, humanist.

If you are remaining an island nation I suggest exploration, offensive, expansion and to go first into malasia and australia, then into the new world.

 

[1alexey]

Actually stacking quality on quality don't make that much sense because relatively increase in quality is less the more of it you got.

It is actually the other way around. Quality stacks more or less exponentially, as the advantage you gained in 1 round of combat is increased in the next round even more, as your troops took less damage and hit harder, and enemy troops took more damage and hit weaker.

 

[FloatingOrb]

There isn't much difference between 10 and 20 discipline tho. or at least that I noticed. that 5 from an adviser makes a huge difference, but after that its creme, you know? It's not like morale. As for the infantry quality stats, I honestly dont know anything about them.

 

[GabbyDieJaeger]

If you're going for a large empire and plan on conquering a lot, I would very much recommend Humanism. With the halved culture thresholds, I've been able to get Korean, Manchu, Sulawesi, Malayan, Cantonese, and Han all accepted in the past.

 

[clockworkBabbag]

If you're going for a large empire and plan on conquering a lot, I would very much recommend Humanism. With the halved culture thresholds, I've been able to get Korean, Manchu, Sulawesi, Malayan, Cantonese, and Han all accepted in the past.

On the other hand, Religious gives you Deus Vult. So that's a free, powerful CB against literally every neighbor that can also make vassalizing and annexing easier due to forced conversions, and non-accepted cultures really aren't much of a problem (and by the end game you can easily have diplo points to spare). Add to that the fact that there's no way to get more tolerance as Shinto, and Religious makes converting provinces much easier.

Also, I don't think I'd say Expansion is a great choice. That extra colonist isn't that essential, the extra trade bonuses from Expansion aren't going to be as worthwhile to Japan as they would be to other nations, and it's going to take a while to be able to use the Expansion CB. I really don't think it's worth the admin points for Japan.

 

[mrguymiah]

On the other hand, Religious gives you Deus Vult. So that's a free, powerful CB against literally every neighbor that can also make vassalizing and annexing easier due to forced conversions, and non-accepted cultures really aren't much of a problem (and by the end game you can easily have diplo points to spare). Add to that the fact that there's no way to get more tolerance as Shinto, and Religious makes converting provinces much easier.

Also, I don't think I'd say Expansion is a great choice. That extra colonist isn't that essential, the extra trade bonuses from Expansion aren't going to be as worthwhile to Japan as they would be to other nations, and it's going to take a while to be able to use the Expansion CB. I really don't think it's worth the admin points for Japan.

I would agree that Religious is definitely better. ESPECIALLY if you go the Catholic route. At that point, your new provinces go from heretic to heathen, raising revolt risk more. Religious will make it easier to convert these lands, and is especially useful if you want to then go protestant or reformed.

Exploration trumps expansion because you have to find those nearby provinces before you can actually colonize them. As said above, the trade is practically useless for you.