Japan Economy And Tech in General

[unmerged(35036)]

On day ONE Japan have 2.2 times the industrial power a nation like Australia have, this looks totally ahistorical to me.

Without the Corea Territories Japan ends having just 4 Tech Slots, and a Material shortage with that low capabilites.

Is this Historical??

It looks very weird to me, even when i know Japan will get some extra IC later on via events, this still annoys me out.

Also the Bushido Codex isn't reflected at all in this Light Infantry Land Doctrines, in fact they have less ORG than they should, is this correct?

What about doing something like CORE for HOI1, with The italian and French Revamp Techs, or the Bushido Codex Tech for Japan?

On the other hand Kwangtung Army won't be able to keep up the tech race with other countries.

How will Kwangtung deal with Russia when times come??

This is without counting Kwangtung army can't even use its full low IC during lack of materials, they will never benefit even if Japan takes over Netherlands west indies.

 

[Luxor]

On day ONE Japan have 2.2 times the industrial power a nation like Australia have, this looks totally ahistorical to me.

Not really.

 

[unmerged(27195)]

pls, don't forget never that you're using a not totally balanced Beta

 

[Lothos]

There are limitations to the tech tree. Any tech example used from HoI 1 is completely irrelevant to HoI 2 because we do not have the same flexibility as we did in HoI 1.

Japan may have less IC and only 4 tech teams but once we start balancing it if Kwantung handles the fighting in China and Japan just sends a few exp forces that leave Japan itself to only worry about the Pacific and he can ignore the Chinese theater. A human Japan can simply take military control of Kwantung if he wants to do everything.

 

[unmerged(35036)]

There are limitations to the tech tree. Any tech example used from HoI 1 is completely irrelevant to HoI 2 because we do not have the same flexibility as we did in HoI 1.

Japan may have less IC and only 4 tech teams but once we start balancing it if Kwantung handles the fighting in China and Japan just sends a few exp forces that leave Japan itself to only worry about the Pacific and he can ignore the Chinese theater. A human Japan can simply take military control of Kwantung if he wants to do everything.

This Kwangtung thing is great for the AI, but when it comes to Industrial and Tech balance, its totally insane, i wonder how will balance will be brought.

As for a Japan player, i think it could get really frustrating playing Japan now, in vanila Japan still lacks required IC for all the tasks it have to acomplish.

On the other hand youa re right about AI separation, if Japan is not at war with China it usually will do some hits in the pacific, and wont be annexed as its usually near the 43, so im not saying this is a bad idea, but Japan actual IC is really a big Joke

 

[Lothos]

Well you are still thinking of your IC and equating it to what Japan needs to keep an army in China. Let us say a human is playing Japan. He starts with about 85 IC and by the time the war starts with China he could be at about 100 IC. Kwantung starts with about 38 IC. Now if Kwantung is taking the brunt of the force in China with Japan just providing some extra troops here and there that changes the story of the game. Japan no longer needs to build 100 divisions. Now they only need like 50 divisions and the rest can go into the navy. Kwantung on the other hand needs only ground forces which with 38IC they can build about a 30 to 50 division size army and maintain it and as they take territory from China their IC will increase. You have to look at the big picture here and not just from the perspective of a human player controlling everything. A human player playing Japan can still do everything he did before the only difference is he has to take control of Kwantung and depend on them to build the ground forces he needs to fight in China with OR (once its balanced) he can just let Kwantung AI do the fighting for him in China and just provide some support when he feels like it.

When you work the numbers Japan actually comes out ahead on this.

 

[unmerged(35036)]

Well you are still thinking of your IC and equating it to what Japan needs to keep an army in China. Let us say a human is playing Japan. He starts with about 85 IC and by the time the war starts with China he could be at about 100 IC. Kwantung starts with about 38 IC. Now if Kwantung is taking the brunt of the force in China with Japan just providing some extra troops here and there that changes the story of the game. Japan no longer needs to build 100 divisions. Now they only need like 50 divisions and the rest can go into the navy. Kwantung on the other hand needs only ground forces which with 38IC they can build about a 30 to 50 division size army and maintain it and as they take territory from China their IC will increase. You have to look at the big picture here and not just from the perspective of a human player controlling everything. A human player playing Japan can still do everything he did before the only difference is he has to take control of Kwantung and depend on them to build the ground forces he needs to fight in China with OR (once its balanced) he can just let Kwantung AI do the fighting for him in China and just provide some support when he feels like it.

When you work the numbers Japan actually comes out ahead on this.

As a human Japan i avoided to Build infantry as much as i could, thus being able to overrun china with a diff 5 to 1 in numbers ans still upgrading and building a competitive fleet for the pacific.

Now all will be on the hands of stupid AI, that will build Militias to fight an outnumbered war against China.

It doesn't look good for the human Japan to be honest.

From my point of view, again i might be wrong, if we are gonna give countries like US a possible IC power of 1400 including both military and Civilian variables in the table, why are we reducing Japan to 1/2-2/3 of what it really should be?

Repeating it again, on the other hand, the Kwangtung idea is the best of an AI Japan, as it will be able to deal with USA, Philiphines and Dutch Indies in a decent way, but how to make this work, well there is a long road from where we are standing now.

 

[Lothos]

Why do you assume the AI will mass build Militia?

 

[unmerged(11633)]

Japan probably needs to minimum IC for 5 tech teams (80 base IC). The Kwantung Army only has to research army techs, but Japan will still need Army, Navy and Airforce for a decent pacific campaign. Japan can't afford to neglect the army and leave it to the KA- they need land doctrines, artillery, marines and infantry, whilst still getting fighters, bombers, carriers, destroyers subs and everything else.

 

[unmerged(35036)]

Why do you assume the AI will mass build Militia?

I don't think a Puppet like Country like the Kwangtung will be able to develop Mech INF or even Mot INF, and med tanks technologies..

The IC, research teams and material base will only allow it to go Militia+Normal INF, degrading the quality of the Imperial Army a lot.

 

[Lothos]

Kwantung is not a puppet of Japan they are an ally

Gjeg point noted, Luxor you think Marlok will be ok on increase Japans base IC to the minimum needed for 5 tech teams?

 

[Luxor]

Kwantung is not a puppet of Japan they are an ally

Gjeg point noted, Luxor you think Marlok will be ok on increase Japans base IC to the minimum needed for 5 tech teams?

Yes, why not?

 

[unmerged(35036)]

Kwantung is not a puppet of Japan they are an ally

Maybe it should?

 

[Lothos]

No if they are a puppet then Kwantung will collapse just like Manchuria does. They need to be able to expand and build up their army etc... so being a puppet is not an option.

 

[xelloss]

Hi!

I just tried TRP 0.71 and I really liked it. I actually think that the kwantung army models quite well the lower quality of troops in the china theater, and also the fact that the Army mostly invaded on their own.

And now I have a question: Will there be events for a post-war period, possibly involving the early part of the cold war? Because if Japan would make i trough the war, not by winning but by not going to war with the allies (or only the US, if they are isolationist), I think the kwantung army should be annexed by event to Japan. This would allow me to play a cold war between japan and the US.

 

[Luxor]

Hi!

I just tried TRP 0.71 and I really liked it. I actually think that the kwantung army models quite well the lower quality of troops in the china theater, and also the fact that the Army mostly invaded on their own.

And now I have a question: Will there be events for a post-war period, possibly involving the early part of the cold war? Because if Japan would make i trough the war, not by winning but by not going to war with the allies (or only the US, if they are isolationist), I think the kwantung army should be annexed by event to Japan. This would allow me to play a cold war between japan and the US.

So far there's nothing about Jap-Kwa surviving WWII, but this is a good idea

 

[semaphore]

It ought to be made that, when war in China ends (either through peace or conquest) Tokyo resumes control over the Kwantung Army. That'd be much more realistic; I mean, if China remains outside Japanese rule that sort of defeats the whole purpose of invading.