Japan and what happened?

[Slavv]

So I'm playing in Japan as the Daimyo Hosukawa or w.e, the green one next to Kyoto with the 4 provinces. Everything is going amazing, I ate two Daimyo in the first 6 years or so next to me and reached about 79 development. Then in about 5 years, I declared war on two more. I beat them and suddenly, I get this message that I'm an independent Daimyo, however the Ashikaga have declared war on me for it in a conquest CB.

Why did I go independent? Is there a limit on how large Daimyo can become before they are forced into independence, and consequentially, destroyed by a unified Shogun-Daimyo invasion? I'm not exactly sure what happened. Is the Shogun (Ashikaga in this case) able to just declare war on any Daimyo and take his land with the help of the other Daimyo?

Please help, I really want to do a Japan run but if this happens, I don't see a plausible way to do it as a Daimyo.

Thanks!

 

[Zaddy]

Did you fight the Ashikaga at any point before they DOWed you?

 

[Slavv]

Did you fight the Ashikaga at any point before they DOWed you?

No.

 

[I'm gaming]

Did you become independent before the Shogun Dowed? If so, that's a bug. If the Shogun Dowed first, then that is intended. The Shogun can Dow on any Daimyo who has more than 10 provinces without stabhit.

 

[SaucyBaron]

Shogun can DOW daimyo's with 10 or more provinces to cut you down to size.

It's to stop you from just blobing into other daimyos until you can gaurentee victory against the Shogun, he can see that coming and DOW you first.

 

[YellowGelni]

Depending on their size they could have taken the decision to unite Japan, droping all their Daimyo vassals and switching them to Japan. Or are they still the Ashikaga tag?

 

[emux]

I saw yesterday that Shogun can get annex vassal CB under certain circunstances. Looking for it.

 

[otaats]

Shogunate gets a free CB on dangerously big Daimyos.

 

[Slavv]

Shogun can DOW daimyo's with 10 or more provinces to cut you down to size.

It's to stop you from just blobing into other daimyos until you can gaurentee victory against the Shogun, he can see that coming and DOW you first.

Ah, this has to be it. I was about 10 provinces large so....How am I meant to take on the shogun then if, once I hit 10 provinces, they just bring the entirety of Japan to bear against me?

 

[Dakka]

Ah, this has to be it. I was about 10 provinces large so....How am I meant to take on the shogun then if, once I hit 10 provinces, they just bring the entirety of Japan to bear against me?

Get nine provinces, then ally the other major Daimyo. They will join you in your war against the Shōgun. Just make sure you got to Kyoto first, as they won’t give you occupation for the capital. Once you have soundly beaten Ashikaga, annex Kyoto. You will become Shōgun and the other Daimyo will become your vassals. Anything left of Ashikaga will become independent.
Hope that helps

 

[Slavv]

Get nine provinces, then ally the other major Daimyo. They will join you in your war against the Shōgun. Just make sure you got to Kyoto first, as they won’t give you occupation for the capital. Once you have soundly beaten Ashikaga, annex Kyoto. You will become Shōgun and the other Daimyo will become your vassals. Anything left of Ashikaga will become independent.
Hope that helps

The only big Daimyo are the Uesegi, everyone else is tiny and 1-2 provinces. Even if I ally 4 Daimyo, there's still just so many left that they'll overrun me it seems.

Maybe I'm working too quickly? Around what year should I be aiming to take Kyoto?

 

[Dakka]

The only big Daimyo are the Uesegi, everyone else is tiny and 1-2 provinces. Even if I ally 4 Daimyo, there's still just so many left that they'll overrun me it seems.

Maybe I'm working too quickly? Around what year should I be aiming to take Kyoto?

In my Hosokawa game I took Shōgun by 1460-something. Just keep in mind every Daimyo on your side is less on the Shōgun’s. Uesugi is a solid ally and can usually handle the north. Just get him and a couple others (the largest possible) and you should be fine. Also keep in mind it is easy to divide and conquer. Even if the Shōgun’s coalition has more troops, they are usually spread out and easy to deal with piecemeal.