Japan and Italy's Super Tank Programs

[SteveStevenson]

Italy's best tank was the Fiat M13/40. A 47mm armed light tank that did not see service until June 1940, almost a year into the war. It had an impressive 30mm of armor capable of mostly deflecting heavy machine guns and certain auto cannons at range.

To mirror their obvious prowess in tank design, Italy gets a total of 4x armor research bonuses.


Japan produced some 75mm armed Chi-Nu's (similar in quality to a 1939 medium tank), which did enter production until 1944, but for the most part, their best tank was the 1942 Ke-Ni, a lightly armored, 37mm armed tank consistent in quality with a 1936 HOI4 light tank.

Japan gets 2x armor bonuses


None of the allies get more than a single 1x armor bonus.
USA gets none at all, despite it's quickly modernized tank program from 41'-42'.

The point of HOI4 is provide the player with ways to run a nation that differ from how they were ran historically so I am not necessarily opposed to the idea of Japan and Italy getting tank research. It's the fact that the Allies, particularly the allied majors who all historically had superior tank programs at some point in the war, get little or no research at all, denying the player from choosing a historical way to play their nation.

 

[Meglok]

It is not about what they actually did, but what they could have done, what designs they had drawn up, what prototypes were in development, and finally about game balance.

Regarding the Japanese, the player gets to decide whether they want to create a Japanese armor force. In real life the Japanese debated this and decided not to produce a large armor force. Their doctrines were sound and they were up to date on armor theory, but they chose to devote their limited resources on ships and other projects. They also considered likely strategic foes and targets and believed tanks might not be that useful. Except of course vs Russia, but being the Japanese their belief in the power of spirit would carry them thru. Turned out that didn't work so well when they fought the Russian tanks in 1939, a large reason why the Japanese avoided the Russians after that.

 

[Rundstedt75]

While people can do world conquest with Luxembourg I'd say this is way down on the list of priorities.

 

[Bane5]

I think the research time for things like heavy tanks simply needs to take longer.

All nations and especially those with fewer research slots would have to sacrifice more to acquire them domestically.

 

[jamesd]

Italy's best tank was the Fiat M13/40. A 47mm armed light tank that did not see service until June 1940, almost a year into the war. It had an impressive 30mm of armor capable of mostly deflecting heavy machine guns and certain auto cannons at range.

You may want to have a look at the Carro Armato P 26/40. With a 75mm main gun and 60mm frontal armour its comparable to the early Sherman and far superior to the M 13/40. Speaking about the M13/40, its basic attributes are comparable or even superior to early Pz III's. The earliest Pz III's only had 15mm of armour and a 37mm gun, and the first main production model only increased frontal armour to 30mm.

 

[Orlunu]

Japan produced some 75mm armed Chi-Nu's (similar in quality to a 1939 medium tank), which did enter production until 1944, but for the most part, their best tank was the 1942 Ke-Ni, a lightly armored, 37mm armed tank consistent in quality with a 1936 HOI4 light tank.

>Their best tank was this arbitrarily chosen light.

No. Sure, let's go with 1942, it was pretty much the lowest point of Japanese tank design and I like to argue with my opponent's strongest case. In 1942 the Japanese army's main designs were:


The Chi-He entering pre-production as ShinHoTo conversions for Chi-Has. Half the weight of a Sherman, but capable of killing it through any facing, it had the advantage in all capacities except for anti-infantry work, and that's because it had a Pz.IV vs Pz.III thing going with the Ho-I tank based on the same chassis. They weren't extraordinary, but these tanks were solid equivalents to their comparable German tanks produced at the time.

They had their run of tank destroyers up and going, again, pretty much equivalent to their contemporary Marders (III) in every way as well as larger-calibre pieces.

Type 2 Ka-Mi, better than any other nation would be able to offer on the amphibious tank front for the entire war, never mind '42.

Their heavy tanks at the time are extremely hard to find data on, but seem to have been fairly non-compelling, yes.



Now, the key thing here, though, is that you're talking about 1942. They were middle of the road in designs in '42, yes, but at the start of the game's time frame they were world-leaders. I would guess that the armour bonuses are largely down to the devs finding it difficult to get Japan up to its proper tech levels at the end of the 30s, although this is largely down to them starting off in a significantly worse position than they should.

 

[Haldan]

30mm of armor

ha! no match for tachyon lances!

 

[SpeedKatMcNasty]

Yes the axis in this game has far FAR better research than the allies do. Italy actually has the best research in the game by a long shot, followed by generic minors (commonwealth has average research), followed by Japan. The allies need better research and the axis needs a big nerf.