Japan against China..any good tip?

[unmerged(14922)]

I'm currently playing a CORE 0.82 campaign on VH/F with Japan.
I'm at war with China and it's already 1938. Until now I took almost half of China, however I have a big problem. I don't have a clue on how I could get those damned mountains!

I've been lucky and I've been able to get the ones near mongolia with a couple of cavalry divisions, however it seems an hard task for all the other mountains.

I thought that a good idea was to encircle a big stack of chinese divisions in the mountains and after that leave a couple of provs without garrisoning troops.

When I started to do it I've checked the number of Chinese divisions..it was somewhere in the 60's.. I've encircled and destroyed 14 divisions. I've checked it again. Still 69 divisions!
I could repeat this again and again, but it will cost me manpower and it cuts off 14 divisions (the ones that I use to encircle and destroy) from the offensive. Currently I'm attacking with 8 stacks of 1 division each. I'm managing to get many provinces but soon I'll reach the mountains. I've tried sending 2 of my mountaineer divisions agains 2 militia in a mountain.
I've checked efficiency: -500! (No, it wasn't nighttime) How can I defeat them?

Any idea?

 

[mesut]

I think you should try to cut the moutain provinces off from their capital right in the beginning of the campaign (don't seize the original capital for this). Then it should be possible to crush those stacks in the moutains. I usually do a landing in some of the southern provinces to split the chinese forces and attack from the north at the same time. Finally use your superior air power to get a fast breakthrough.

For the modifier of -500% i think you need the appropriate moutain equipment technology for the infantry (don't know if you need an upgrade).

Regards
Mesut

 

[LewsTherin]

Although bombing in mountains only has a limited effect, in clear weather you can still reduce the enemies org enough that an assault has a higher chance of working. Other than that, attack from multiple directions with infantry and mountaineers with superior numbers at least 2:1 but preferrably 3:1.

 

[unmerged(14922)]

I think you should try to cut the moutain provinces off from their capital right in the beginning of the campaign (don't seize the original capital for this). Then it should be possible to crush those stacks in the moutains. I usually do a landing in some of the southern provinces to split the chinese forces and attack from the north at the same time. Finally use your superior air power to get a fast breakthrough.

For the modifier of -500% i think you need the appropriate moutain equipment technology for the infantry (don't know if you need an upgrade).

Regards
Mesut

Yes, I was thinking the same thing. It's just a bit difficult because I don't have many troops yet (heavy research)

I missed the fact that I could missing the right equipment..however I'll need a lot of time to have it then (imp. sint. materials, nylon, mountain equipment...a year or maybe more if I must research some gold techs)

 

[mesut]

Yes, I was thinking the same thing. It's just a bit difficult because I don't have many troops yet (heavy research)

Hi,

as long as you are not in a global war, you can draw all those garrison troops from your islands and throw them in (if you haven't done that). Otherwise do less research and definetly concentrate on infantry technology in the beginning of the campaign including the required industrial ones.

Regards
Mesut

 

[bizkit]

. I've tried sending 2 of my mountaineer divisions agains 2 militia in a mountain.
I've checked efficiency: -500! (No, it wasn't nighttime) How can I defeat them?

Any idea?

this doesnt look normal to me..-500? even if you use panzers on mountains its about -80 or smthin...

maybe you should report it to core bug forum

 

[Svend Karlson]

It sounds too late for you to do this, but I suggest this would have helped.

The overall strategy I use for China is to literally cut the country into two.

I first annex Siam, which opens up a second front and a second source of supplies.

Then I assemble two army groups, one in the North Siam area, one on the Northern Chinese border with Japan.

The two groups then jump off towards each other, and tend to meet in the mountainous provinces with a river on either side. What I find is that this leaves almost all Chinese forces on the eastern side of the divide, and only a few divisions left in the mountains to the west. It also creates as many encirclement-destruction opportunities as I need to reduce the Chinese strength.

Most of the time I lead my attacks with my few motorised divisions, my single armour, and my engineering brigaded infantry regiments. I use my artillery and others mainly for defending due to their lower speed.

The two leaders Japan has with "engineering" skill, Kawabe and Yoshimara(?) are used extensively to allow for attacks across rivers, often combined with Tojo in order to reduce enemy effectiveness by 20%. I find it possible and acceptable to promote Kawabe to Field Marshall as he gets so much experience (usually ending the Chinese campaign as a Field Marshall with 5+ skill

I find it possible to successfully execute this strategy with a bare minimum of practical research, as in things that will improve infantry stats, as at this stage I am focusing my very limited IC budget on Land, Air and Sea Theoretical Doctrines (the gold techs).

I always aim to annex China by late 38' at the latest, to free up my troops for other operations.

The one and only thing which causes me difficulty, and can actually seriously delay the outcome (but not change it) is the weather. Attacking Jungle or Mountain provinces in poor weather always leads to defeat. Sometimes this can literally be the salvation of a country like Communist China, as I am unable to assault their fortified mountain provinces in anything other than perfect weather.

 

[unmerged(20852)]

I usually pull all available troops from the islands and use them in the early 36 invasion of China. Yes that means accepting the demands of the 6-2-2 coup attempt. Combined with several landings along the coast, and one in strength near the French Indo-China border, I conduct a mass encirclement in the south. Any troop builds should be MTN-ENG and you will need basic medium bombers asap. The faster troops will head directly for Chungking and area. Leave Nanking until last as you can avoid raping it by annexing immediately. The increased US entry for the coup is offset somewhat by this action. Conquest of China could achieved by mid 37 on average.

 

[unmerged(14922)]

Ok. I've listened to your advices and I splitted the country in 2.
Now it's May 1939, I need only to get 4 provs: 2 mountains (don't ask me the names please ), the capital and Shangai.

In the meanwhile I have developed (and deployed some) Basic Medium naval bombers,b. medium tac bombers and b.fighters. Other than Siam, what do you think could be a good target? URSS? USA? Australia? Canada? Any suggestions?

 

[Gunny123]

Ok. I've listened to your advices and I splitted the country in 2.
Now it's May 1939, I need only to get 4 provs: 2 mountains (don't ask me the names please ), the capital and Shangai.

In the meanwhile I have developed (and deployed some) Basic Medium naval bombers,b. medium tac bombers and b.fighters. Other than Siam, what do you think could be a good target? URSS? USA? Australia? Canada? Any suggestions?

Well if you want your game to be over in 2 years attack the russians and watch them take China from you

DOW Siam but do not anex them. You want to stay at war to keep your consumer goods down. Then wait for Germany to go to war against the allies. Once Germany is at war with the allies wait one month (wait a month for the AI, it will sometimes pull british from the east to the west) and DOW the allies. You can now hit the annex button on Siam. Then strike south and take all those rich islands and try and get the Australia before the USA comes after you. Once you control all of the east and have India then you can go ask for your butt kicking against the USSR.

 

[Svend Karlson]

Ok. I've listened to your advices and I splitted the country in 2.
Now it's May 1939, I need only to get 4 provs: 2 mountains (don't ask me the names please ), the capital and Shangai.

In the meanwhile I have developed (and deployed some) Basic Medium naval bombers,b. medium tac bombers and b.fighters. Other than Siam, what do you think could be a good target? URSS? USA? Australia? Canada? Any suggestions?

After annexing China & Siam, and puppeting Sianking, I would look at these options immediately:

Iraq: For their oil primarily, as until the Dutch East Indies or the French possessions in the far east are yours you will still be running out of rubber/oil most likely

Egypt: This will allow you to take Suez as soon as you join the Allies. In turn this will allow you to directly & indirectly support Germany as much (or as little) as you want. For instance once you are running a surplus you can send them rubber and oil.

By the time you have both these countries (it is not so straightforward given how far from your home provinces you are operating) I would expect the Axis to be at war with the allies. From then on I would consider the following

Australia & New Zealand: Puppeting them not only stops them from taking your islands (or you needing to garrison them) but also means they will start to take the UK islands. I try not to destroy their forces whilst I am invading them in order to let them do this.

Dutch East Indies: Holland is often not into the war until 40', so this is not usually my first action after joining the Axis. I wait until the Dutch mainland has been occupied by Germany before going after the Dutch colonies. Assuming you use Marines with basic Infantry to hold land this campaign is simple, no more than 3-4 months.

French possessions in the Far East: This is always my first priority as if Vichy triggers these provinces go to Vichy, and this is a shame as they have good resources. Very easy to take - should be complete within 2 months

India: India is not a quick win, but I always send a group of fast divisions, usually including para's, to occupy all of India. Engineer brigaded light tanks or motorised infantry are ideal.

In my current game VH/F + CORE Pro I have the above plus Yemen, Oman, Syria & Gibraltar, hence the med is now a safe zone. South Africa is about to fall (1 VP provice left) and when is does I will puppet it. It is April 1941 and Germany has just DoW on Soviet Union. I'm currently on the defensive on my Soviet borders until I can transfer my air squadrons to that front. Once that happens I will go over to the offensive

 

[unmerged(14922)]

By the time you have both these countries (it is not so straightforward given how far from your home provinces you are operating) I would expect the Axis to be at war with the allies. From then on I would consider the following

Australia & New Zealand: Puppeting them not only stops them from taking your islands (or you needing to garrison them) but also means they will start to take the UK islands. I try not to destroy their forces whilst I am invading them in order to let them do this.

Dutch East Indies: Holland is often not into the war until 40', so this is not usually my first action after joining the Axis. I wait until the Dutch mainland has been occupied by Germany before going after the Dutch colonies. Assuming you use Marines with basic Infantry to hold land this campaign is simple, no more than 3-4 months.

French possessions in the Far East: This is always my first priority as if Vichy triggers these provinces go to Vichy, and this is a shame as they have good resources. Very easy to take - should be complete within 2 months

India: India is not a quick win, but I always send a group of fast divisions, usually including para's, to occupy all of India. Engineer brigaded light tanks or motorised infantry are ideal.

In my current game VH/F + CORE Pro I have the above plus Yemen, Oman, Syria & Gibraltar, hence the med is now a safe zone. South Africa is about to fall (1 VP provice left) and when is does I will puppet it. It is April 1941 and Germany has just DoW on Soviet Union. I'm currently on the defensive on my Soviet borders until I can transfer my air squadrons to that front. Once that happens I will go over to the offensive

Well...i don't plan to take Sinkiang. They have 12 divisions in mountains. I can't take them, because my mountaineer have an efficiency of -480 (w/equipment) so I put 1 division in Anxi to hold the front against them. For the same reason Commie China is still alive.

When Vichy fired I got the French Indochina without firing a shot.

After that I carefully deployed my units at the border with Uk (In india and far east) and I sent my 4 transport groups in Dutch East Indies. I annexed the Netherlands(and got Saigon and Hong Kong..I love marines ) in 24 days. The best thing is that I have Curacao. I'll fill this small island with lots of units and tp in order to invade USA without heavy logistical penalties.
This could bring me to DoW them in 1941, in order to unload some troops on their mainland and watch them build militia, militia and milita.

Currently (25 July 1940) I'm preparing Operation Kangaroo in order to take Australia. I was thinking of annexing it, but you have a good point. Maybe I'll go with puppet.

 

[Svend Karlson]

Currently (25 July 1940) I'm preparing Operation Kangaroo in order to take Australia. I was thinking of annexing it, but you have a good point. Maybe I'll go with puppet.

I've progressed to November 41' in my Japan game now. Soviet Union is crumbling after initially holding the Germans and making progress against Persia & Sianking (I could only help Sianking in their capital because most of their other provinces are <34 infrastructure).

The US has not entered the war.

However a most pleasing thing is that Australia and New Zealand have now occupied every last UK province in their vicinity. I could have done the same but it would have been time consuming, and would have taken away troops & transports that I was using elsewhere.

After also puppeting Belgium & South Africa, their troops along with the Italians in the North have taken almost all of Africa.

Hence there is only really the big bad Soviet Union, Canada, and the British Isles left.

It's nice to know where your enemies are

 

[gagenater]

Use Paratroops

I played a game a couple of weeks ago as Japan on 1.06 with CORE 0.8 hard/aggressive. I built 4 paratroop divisions with transports, some motorized infantry with engineer brigades (6-9 divisions if I remember right) and 3 divisions of Marines. I also made two stacks of 6 tactical bombers each. Taking China was not to bad even though this building program wasn't done yet. I used the paratroops to take undefended provinces and the motorized infantry and my starting tanks to blitz any provinces with plains or other favorable terrain. I had the Chinese trying to keep up with my moves and unable to mount very many offensives. When the capital moved to ChungKing it took me a little while to capture it, but It fell eventually. I had China annexed by Winter of 38/39. The war in Europe hadn't kicked off yet, so I declared war on the Netherlands and took out Indonesia. I spent a few months researching & building and fortifying my border between China & the Soviet Union. I declared war independently on the allies so that I cold have something to do and I took the navy and ~ 12 divisions of infantry and motorized infantry on a spree through Malaysia and then on to New Zealand and all the little islands that the allies had in the south pacific while invading India overland. The para's helped enourmously in taking India. I landed on Australia but the resistance was too stiff and I pulled back out.

I Eventually I took the alliance offers from Germany but only AFTER they had started the war with the USSR. I entered in winter of 40/41 This was glorious. I blitzed all the area around the eastern parts of Russia and had the Russian forces retreating and trying to re-form defensive lines. At this point I took my tanks, mechanized infantry and paratroops and blitzed for the German and Russian front. I actually made it to Stalingrad before the Germans could get there, but now I was in a position of having an armored spearhead near the main troop concentrations which were about an order of magnitude larger than mine.
Luckily the Germans were mostly keeping them busy. I was running out of manpower and couldn't sustain any offensives due to the logistics penalties and my inability to sustain major losses in my forces. I played cat and mouse while waiting for the Germans to come and help me finish the job.

I got military access from Iran and marched infantry straight into Grozny and Baku. At this point the Germans and I linked up fronts. I quit the game when it was just a matter of mopping up the Russians before the game was over. What a ride!