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Rich Oliver

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Were January and February added to the beginning of the year or the end of the year? Or in other words did the year begin at the Winter solstice, the Spring Equinox or at some other measure, when Jan and Feb were added to the calender?

To give some context we've just noted the centenary of the Bolshevik revolution in the eleventh month of the year. But we refer to it as the eighth month revolution. Because it happened in the eleventh month some people say we should really refer to it as the ninth month revolution. As Baldrick says to Black Adder in the final episode of series 4, set in that very year 1917, how did we get to this state of affairs?

Edit I can't see how to edit the typo in the thread title.
 
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Seli

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January and February were moved from the end of the year to the beginning somewhere in Roman republican times if I remember correctly. This made it easier for consuls to organize their armies and actually get to the battlefields in time for proper warfare seasons.

An additional shift was caused by a defect in the Julian Calendar, which meant the calendar year was slowly shifting against the solar year, this was fixed by the gregorian reforms. And those were adopted over the centuries by different nations. And that adoption was very late in Russia (only after the revolution, when they had to adjust 13 days).

So the first shift is why the tenth month of the year is called the eight if properly translated. And the second shift is why a revolution that was in the month of October in the local calendar is now celebrated in November.

edit: can't find a real source for that remembered first factoid, the Roman calendar before the Julian reforms is 'interesting', see eg wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_calendar
 
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Rich Oliver

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So you're saying Jan / Feb were moved sometime between 700 bce and Julius Ceasar becoming Pontiff?

And were all the months moved, or was it the start point for the year that was moved?
 

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starting with the Year 153 BC, the Roman Consuls took over office January 1. So, the year started with January

Roman Republic[edit]
  • The uprisings in Rome's Hispanic provinces oblige the year's consuls to take office earlier than the traditional date of 15 March, a change that becomes permanent. Some suggest that, as a consequence, January 1 becomes the first day of the Roman year.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/153_BC
 

Seli

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So you're saying Jan / Feb were moved sometime between 700 bce and Julius Ceasar becoming Pontiff?

And were all the months moved, or was it the start point for the year that was moved?

The start of the year moving is the way I remember the story (so the year was March-Feb, and became Jan-Dec). But as I mentioned I cannot really find corroboration.
Things are made unclear as well by the Romans using days that didn't belong to any of the months to keep lunar and solar calendars aligned. Another story I keep seeing is that January and February were added in front of the other months around 700 BC by Numa created out of those interstitial days. But of course the existence of Numa is debatable.
 

Abdul Goatherd

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A few more notes on the nuttiness of Roman calendars:

The first calendar (legendarily Romulus's) was the ten month lunar calendar (30/31 days, so 304/05 total). It is here we get September, October, etc.

The second calendar (legendarily, Numa's) was the twelve month lunar (28/31 days, so 355 total) where February & January (originally in that order, later flipped) come at the end of the year to cover the winter.

Given Numa's calendar is 10 days short of solar, then every second year there would be a 13th month - the "Intercalaris" or "Mercedonius" month, of 22/23 days - slipped in between February & March. So, for a very long time, years alternated between 12 months (355 days) and 13 months (377/78 days). Which means that there had to be further intermittent adjustments, typically 7 days were deducted every eight years.

But when or if that adjustment actually happened depended on the College of Pontiffs, and a myriad of other things had to be taken into consideration. e.g., for superstitious Romans, odd numbers are lucky and even numbers are unlucky, so during long war periods, the Pontiffs often decided to keep the 13-month years running several years in a row to ensure victory. Which means they had to get back to it and adjust it again later. But when they got around to it and by how much was unclear - the adjustment was only done after mystical consultations, all with religious mumbo jumbo and ceremonial fanfare.

So it was all a bit ambiguous in Roman Republican times. At the beginning of a year, you didn't actually know how long it would be. Which means you can't predict how long a consul rules, or how many taxes are raised, or when religious festivals would land, or if they were held on time (e.g. harvest festivals could weirdly end up in the dead of winter), or if they were held at all (adjustment might suddenly delete them). And all that ambiguity was, of course, welcomed by the priests - as it makes them even more important.

As others stated, the year started on March 1 - which is why dates of Republican Roman events are usually listed in modern history texts in double-barreled format (e.g. 387/86 BCE, i.e. record states X happened in consular year Z, which means sometime in the year that starts March 1, 387 and ends Feb 29, 386 ... maybe).

The adjustment to January 1 was only done in 153 BCE.

The Julian reforms of 46 BCE adjusted the calendar to the steady 12-month solar year, beginning Jan 1, 45, but with a leap year every third year (adjusted to every fourth by Augustus).

Pope Gregory XIII's reforms of 1582 changed things by forcing three leap years every four centuries to become conventional years. So while the Julian averages 365.25 days, the Gregorian year averages 365.2425 days. The advantage of Gregorian is that it better matches the astronomical cycle. So Julian gives an error of 1 day every 128 years, while Gregorian gives an error of 1 day every 3,030 years.

Which means that by the time of Russian Revolution, enough errors had accumulated that Julian Calendar-using countries like Russia were 13 days off from the Gregorian countries (ROTW), so October Revolution is Oct 25 in Russia but November 7 in ROTW.

Also, early Christian calendars were different from Roman Julian calendar. Christian years start differently depending on whether you're using "Year of Our Lord" (AD, originally began Christmas, later changed to Jan 1) or using "Year of Creation" (began Mar 21 or Sep 1, 5509 BCE, depending on whose calculation you follow) or using "Era of Diocletian" (began Aug 29, 284 CE).

And also keep in mind the difference in start days of conventional years (Jan 1) and civil, legal & religious years (March 25) persisted in western Europe down to the modern era, and tends to mess up chronologies if you are not careful, e.g. William the Conquerer actually invaded England in 1067 (actual year), not 1066 (legal year). So many events (esp. documents) of the Middle & Early Modern Ages are referenced in "double-barreled" format in modern texts (e.g. "Declaration of Rights" is cited as February 13, 1688-89, meaning 1688 in legal year, 1689 in actual year).
 

Rich Oliver

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A very informative post but
And also keep in mind the difference in start days of conventional years (Jan 1) and civil, legal & religious years (March 25) persisted in western Europe down to the modern era, and tends to mess up chronologies if you are not careful, e.g. William the Conquerer actually invaded England in 1067 (actual year), not 1066 (legal year).
How did that work? William the Conqueror invaded in early October so surely the years matched.

I believe when William of Orange invaded Britain he arrived in England before he had left the Netherlands.
 

Abdul Goatherd

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A very informative post but

How did that work? William the Conqueror invaded in early October so surely the years matched.

You're right. Misled by my own notes. William I was crowned on Christmas Day, 1066, which in England at that time was considered New Year's Day of 1067, so his reign officially begins December 25, 1067. Yet allegedly William adjusted the calendar so 1067 began on January 1, so in his reckoning (& ours today) it is December 25, 1066. But in terms of the English calendar prevailing until then, it was 1067.

EDIT: Arrgh. The legal chronology of Sir Matthew Hale dates the conquest in October 1067. What a mess. He must have worked backwards.

I believe when William of Orange invaded Britain he arrived in England before he had left the Netherlands.

Technically, yes. :)

At least by the legal calendar, he was King of England in February 1688. And sailed from the Netherlands in October, 1688.
 
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The problem with a lunar calendar is that you've got years with different numbers of months, and a month with a variable number of days on each end of the calendar, depending on when the new or full moon occurs in relation to the winter solstice or whatever solar event you choose to mark the turn of the year. Trying to do the fractional math for the quarter day (365.24 days in a year) with Roman Numerals or other awkward number systems has to be a huge nightmare.

Then you've got cultures that state the year according to the reign of the current king. If that king was crowned during the same year that his predecessor passed away, then you've got the first year of the reign of King Whatsisface IV being the same year as the last one of King Whatsisface III. If crowned the following year, then those years are different, so simply adding up the years of each king's reign isn't necessarily an accurate way to gauge the year of an event. Then you figure in "regencies" and cases where the heir was on campaign or busy putting down a rival for the throne, and not able to be crowned that year, meaning that there's another year or more unaccounted for in the timeline. That makes any chronology of ancient times subject to quite a bit of variation over time, to the point where we can't definitively align the timelines of several major ancient cultures to within even a decade of each other. There's simply way too much room for error, and too many exceptions to the rules to be able to confidently state that some particular event happened in 843BC, for example. Worse, there are very few international events that tie even two of the civilizations together beyond a reasonable doubt ("Was that the SAME "King Whatsisface" mentioned in the inscription, or his great grandson with the same name").
 

Abdul Goatherd

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Then you've got cultures that state the year according to the reign of the current king. If that king was crowned during the same year that his predecessor passed away, then you've got the first year of the reign of King Whatsisface IV being the same year as the last one of King Whatsisface III. If crowned the following year, then those years are different, so simply adding up the years of each king's reign isn't necessarily an accurate way to gauge the year of an event. Then you figure in "regencies" and cases where the heir was on campaign or busy putting down a rival for the throne, and not able to be crowned that year, meaning that there's another year or more unaccounted for in the timeline. That makes any chronology of ancient times subject to quite a bit of variation over time, to the point where we can't definitively align the timelines of several major ancient cultures to within even a decade of each other. There's simply way too much room for error, and too many exceptions to the rules to be able to confidently state that some particular event happened in 843BC, for example. Worse, there are very few international events that tie even two of the civilizations together beyond a reasonable doubt ("Was that the SAME "King Whatsisface" mentioned in the inscription, or his great grandson with the same name").

The use of regnal chronologies is admittedly a problem. We may know that king X ruled for 10 years, followed by king Y for 5 years, but doesn't tell us when exactly. We only get relative rather than absolute dates. Since relative chronologies ("third year of King X") are the most customary way to record events, it poses a problem.

Happily, Ancient civilizations were not completely self-contained, and events in one often had implications for another, and so were recorded in both (Egypt records its invasion of Hittites, Hittites record being invaded by Egyptians). So we can reconcile cross-civilizational records and approach a more correct date.

Doesn't always work, particularly if records within a civilization are crappy or contradictory (e.g. Egyptians have multiple chronologies that don't match up with each other) and names are often ambiguous (esp. if repeated, is it in the reign of Ramses the father or Ramses the son? how many Ramseses are there exactly?). So you're right.

But this is not really as much a problem for the Roman Republic. Happily, consuls are annual and there are at least two of them, so Roman consular dating is quite "fine-grain" relative to typical regnal chronologies, with reigns of indeterminate length (only one year for consuls) or repeated names (can't tell if father or grandson? check who the other consul was).

The Ancient chronologies for Rome rely heavily on matching relative consular dating with the Greek Olympiads (which were probably the best absolute records of the time). This was done by several ancient Roman historians themselves. The major effort to pin down absolute Roman dates by matching with Olympiads was undertaken by Polybius in his Histories. It culminated in the AVC system of the Annales of Marcus Terentius Varro.

So for Roman dating we have three systems:

(1) By the "consular year", that is "in the year of consuls x and y". This is relative dating and relies on the fasti consularis, a fairly complete list of consuls from 509 BCE forwards. Since Roman records are cited by consular date, this is the most "accurate" match from events to year, but it is still relative.

(2) By the "triumph year", that is, "in the year of the triumph of z". This relies on the fasti triumphalis, a record list of triumphs held in Rome, which is more incomplete. But helps double-check matching.

(3) By "AVC" (Ab Urbe Condita), that is, "years since the founding of the city" (pinned by Varro at 753 BCE). This is the absolute measure created by Varro, relying on Polybius and Greek Olympiads. The Varro chronology became common and official under Augustus.

Of course, none of this is perfect. Roman histories still contradict each other at times. For instance, Livy's chronicles have a different AVC (751 BCE) and his account of the early republic is very crappy, his relative consular dating wanders away from the list for years on end and he obviously makes up stuff ("this year no consuls were elected") to try to reconcile things. The chronicle of Dionysus of Halicarnassus's (a foreigner, with foreign sources) is much better and matches the fasti much closer (although he pins AVC at 752 BCE). Alas, since modern writers tend to read & love Livy and often overlook Dionysus, Livy's mistaken dating tends to be perpetuated.

Still, the contradictions aren't as vast as all that. They may be off by a couple of years, but not "by decades" (like the Egyptians).
 
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Kovax

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Agreed, at least for Greece, Rome, and a few other civilizations. Others, particularly Babylon, Assyria, Egypt, and others in the Middle East are far more problematical, and there are several events which are only determinable to within several decades at best.

Supposedly, one letter links the brief Egyptian Akhenaten period to another kingdom (I don't recall the details), but that other kingdom is in doubt as to whether the letter is to (or from, I don't recall) the father or son of the same name, or possibly even some regional governor of that name. According to several major wars or battles mentioned in several different kingdoms' records, if one date is correct, the other is off by something like 30 years, or vice versa, which again begs the question of whether it's in the time frame of the ruler we think, or an ancestor/descendent of the same name, and whether they're referring to the battle we think, or if there was a second battle between those same powers in the region, a few decades earlier or later. In essence, once you go back before 1000 BC, it's about all you can do to narrow something down to "late 1100s or early 1200s". The errors get progressively less as they approach the modern era, solar calendars, and greater survival of detailed records.

One potential treasure trove is the waste dumps of several imperial cities, where loans and agreements were pressed into clay, fired, and handed to the lien holder. Upon payment or completion of the contract, the tablets were ritually broken. The myriads of fragments lie in mounds, and modern computerized methods may allow us to piece some of them together, potentially providing more detailed financial records of those civilizations than their own rulers had access to. That could include enough dates to fill in a "probably accurate" timeline.