Jan 3rd 1721 - Is my WC over?

zehive · Dec 29, 2020

~1k FL, I make plenty of ducats and have upgraded advisors. The big problem is how strong the european powers are.. Muscovy and Great Britain combined have about 900 units, Muscovy being especially annoying with 400-500 units depending on how they feel and full quantity + quality ideas. I feel as though I am far behind on pace as well, I expanded rather slowly to dodge serious coalitions until I began to snowball around 1560, when I started conquering india, and truce chained major muslim nations so no coalition formed. I know I have another 10% admin efficiency boost coming within 2 techs, but I'm not sure if it will be enough to overcome the extreme OE I'm eating, and with how strong these European powers are they could dogpile into coalitions and overwhelm me. Allies at the moment are Commonwealth and GB.

I've also barely touched Africa, as I've conquering upstream nodes to support a bigger army exclusively, and its been more than enough to have me constantly at 80-99% OE for about a century nonstop.

Is this run a wash? I might play it out until the end regardless since I barely ever play past the early 18th century, but I'm hoping for advice on how best to proceed. As it is, my strategy is to continue to wipe Asia while waiting for truce with Muscovy, and then rinse repeat wars with them while staying around ~100OE on asian land. Its just so easy to hit 100 and takes so long to get rid of. After that, I'll dow spain and snake through france, hoping that I'm big enough no coalitions form with those two being juggled on truce timers.. but I have no clue if I'll have enough time. It may take another 4-5 wars to clear muscovy at this rate, at least 3 for them to not be swinging 200-300 fl around, requiring significant investment of my forces

grotaclas · Dec 29, 2020

zehive said:
while staying around ~100OE on asian land. Its just so easy to hit 100 and takes so long to get rid of.

Do you have 50% administrative efficiency (30% from 100 absolutism and 20% from tech) and -45% Core creation cost(-25% from admin ideas and -20% from Ottoman ideas)? With that 200 dev would cause 100 OE and it would take less than 20 months to core it. If you stay at 100 OE for the rest of the game, you could core around
100/(1-0.50)/20*12*(1745-1721)+100/(1-0.60)/20*12*(1821-1745)=14280 development. That is almost enough for the rest of the old world. You can absorb more development if you take over 100 OE and give the excess to vassals and client states. This is especially useful to speed up the conquest of the big blobs.

zehive · Dec 29, 2020

Yes, that is my current CCR and Admin efficiency. I am realizing the vassal thing now, I should have been feeding Crimea during the Muscovy war, which I completely neglected and actually took less land than I could have. I'll be more aggressive and use client states from now on, perhaps that will ease things!

atwix · Dec 29, 2020

you could also go revolutionary, it has insane bonuses on the military. But it requires a knowledgable and good player to even flip to this government form in this patch..

guide to it in spoiler below. You will be named revolutionary turkey!

While going for the new Napoleon's Ambition achievement I had some difficulty figuring out how to go revolutionary in the new patch. After digging through the game files I found that it has changed quite a bit, so I thought I would write this up to help anyone else looking to become revolutionary.

Please note that this information is based on having the Emperor DLC active. Without the DLC you can skip step 1 and, based on the disaster files, the revolution should be available.

This is a technical look at the requirements for becoming revolutionary. I did not explore the non-revolutionary options of the revolution disaster.

Edit: In the first draft of this I had under the requirements for the revolution disaster that your capital must be in Europe and have revolution spread to it. This was incorrect - the file has an OR not an AND. As of 1.30 you no longer need a European Capital to fire the revolution disaster.

Step 1: The Center of Revolution
The previous disaster is still used, with modifications, but is hidden at the start of the age of revolutions. To begin your journey towards liberating people from capitalism monarchy you must wait for an event to fire creating the first center of revolution. For anyone interested in testing or checking the game files, the event is center_of_revolution.1000 in the file /events/center_of_revolution_events.txt.

This is a province event that can fire once per game.

The requirements for the event to fire in a province are:

It is the Age of Revolutions.
The province has 30 development or more.
The province has 100% Enlightenment progress
The owner of the province is a great power, has embraced enlightenment, is not a subject nation and is not the Papal States.
The province does not have the province modifier "religious_center"

This event has a mean time to happen of 600 years. There are a huge list of factors that raise or lower this, allowing players to manipulate the event to have a much higher chance of firing in their own province. The factors are multiplicative - a factor greater than 1 increases the time to happen, a factor lower than 1 lowers the time to happen.

20 if the province is not in Europe
0.75 if the province is a capital
1.5 if the province is not in the same region as the owner's capital
0.8 if the province is the highest development province in Europe, or is outside Europe and has a higher development than any European Province
2 if the province is not in the same area as the owner's capital
0.9 if the province owner is a monarchy
0.9 if the province owner has embrace Industrialization
0.9 if the province has 100% progress towards Industrialization
1.2 if the province owner does not have the burghers estate
10 if the owner has under 10 absolutism
2 if the owner has under 20 absolutism
1.2 if the owner has under 30 absolutism
1.2 if the owner has under 40 absolutism
1.2 if the owner has under 50 absolutism
1.2 if the owner has under 60 absolutism
0.95 if the owner has 70 or more absolutism
0.9 if the owner has 80 or more absolutism
0.9 if the owner has 90 or more absolutism
0.9 if the owner has 100 or more absolutism
0.95 if the province has 35 or more development
0.95 if the province has 40 or more development
0.9 if the province has 45 or more development
0.9 if the province has 50 or more development
0.8 if the province owner has 50 or more revanchism
0.9 if the province owner has 20 or more loans
0.9 if the province owner has 30 or more loans
0.9 if the province owner has less than 1 stability
0.9 if the province owner has less than -1 stability
1.2 if the province owner has 3 stability
0.9 if the province owner has less than -10 prestige
0.9 if the province owner has less than -50 prestige
0.8 if the year is 1750 or later
0.8 if the year is 1765 or later
0.8 if the year is 1780 or later
0.5 if the year is 1800 or later
0.8 if the following conditions are met:
- Province has 20 base production or 30 trade power
- Province owner has the burghers, jains or vaisyas estates
- One of the following is true
  - The burghers, jains and vaisyas have under 20 influence
  - The burghers, jains and vaisyas have under 25 loyalty
  - If you have multiple of these estates then all must be under 20 influence or under 25 loyalty
0.8 If the estate requirements in the factor above are met and trade and production together are 75% or more of national income
0.75 for each of the following flags set by country events:
- revolutionary_sentiment_flour_wars
- revolutionary_sentiment_many_loans
- revolutionary_sentiment_necker_reforms
- revolutionary_sentiment_3rd_estate_demands

Quite the list of factors! The basic idea of trashing your country to force the peasants to sieze what is rightfully theirs still exists, but now has a lot more math involved. Once the event fires it will create a center of revolution that begins spreading the revolution to your provinces.

Side note: There is a second event, center_of_revolution.1001, that can create a second center of revolution if the first is wiped out. It has a much shorter time to happen, but can't occur within 25 years of the first center being created (50 years if the province owner is the revolution target) and will only fire if the first center was destroyed.

Step 2: The Revolution Disaster
Once the revolution center has spawned it will start spreading revolution to nearby provinces - 3 at a time. You can check its progress in two ways:

The new Revolution political map mode
The Government Tab. Here you will see the progress of the revolution in your country

Once the progress reaches 20% for a country, the Revolution disaster can start. To see the disaster the following conditions must be met:

You have not had the revolution occur
You are not the Papal States
You are not France (France has it's own disaster) or you are France but are not a Monarchy
You are not a Celestial Empire
You are not a subject nation
You do not have the doom mechanic
It is the Age of Revolutions
You are not revolutionary
If the Emperor DLC is active:
- You are a great power
- You have 20% revolutionary spread
- Your capital is in Europe OR has the revolution spread to it
If the Emperor DLC is not active:
- You have at least 30 provinces
- Your capital is in Europe
- There is no Revolutionary Target

To start disaster progress, the following must be true:

You are not in a disaster
You have less than 2 stability
One of the following is true:
- You have less than 0 stability
- You have 50% revolution spread
- You have 50 or more loans
- You are bankrupt
- You have 10 or more inflation
- You have 10 or more war exhaustion
- You have less than 0 prestige
- You have a European capital and one of the following:
  - You have the largest standing army in Europe
  - You have the highest development among nations in Europe

Once started, progress halts if you have 3 stability. The disaster progress ticks up and once it hits 100, the disaster begins. The progress per month is dictated by the following factors, which are additive.

0.5 if you have more than 50, but less than 65 revolutionary spread
0.75 if you have more than 65, but less than 80 revolutionary spread
1 if you have 80 or more revolutionary spread
1 if you have less than 0 prestige
1 if you have 5 or more war exhaustion
0.5 if you have 10 to 24 loans
1 if you have 25 or more loans
0.5 if you have 70 to 79 absolutism
1 if you have 80 or more absolutism
2 if you are bankrupt
0.5 if you have a European capital and one of the following:
- You have the largest standing army in Europe
- You have the highest development in Europe

Once you hit 100 progress, the revolution starts for you.

Step 3: The Revolution arrives
Once the disaster fires you will decide whether to embrace or reject the revolution. Embracing the revolution immediately makes you a revolutionary republic. Reactionary rebels will spawn to try to end the revolution.

Rejecting the revolution spawns revolutionary rebels that will try to convert you to a revolutionary republic. I will not explore this option further as the moral choice is to always behead monarchs when you have a chance.

After embracing the revolution you can end out the disaster by meeting the following requirements:

With Emperor you must meet both of the following:
- Have no rebel armies in your country, or provinces controlled by rebels
- The disaster has been active for 20 years or you have 3 stability
Without Emperor you must meet one of the following:
- Another nation is the revolutionary target
- All of the following:
  - The disaster has been active for 20 years or you have 3 stability
  - You have no rebels or rebel controlled provinces
  - You are a monarchy or revolutionary republic

Step 4: The Revolution
Being revolutionary opens up some fun options. Absolutism is replaced by a new revolutionary fervor that grants up to 30% Admin Efficiency. You also can create unique revolutionary guard units that receive bonuses controlled by country decisions.

The new spread the revolution CB can be used on any target and spreads the revolution to all of their provinces for 60 war score. It also steals monarch points from the target and grants them to you. The amount scales on development - I received over 600 of each type of monarch points for spreading the revolution to the Ottomans.

There are also a few unique revolutionary country names:

The Mughals, Hindustan or Bharat will become Revolutionary Gurkani Empire
The Emperor of China will become Revolutionary China
- You must be in the East Asian culture group
- There are a number of tags that are not eligible for this name change
The Ottomans become Revolutionary Turkey

I hope this information is helpful to those of you looking to force the revolution. I wish you luck with empowering the proletariat.

Reman · Dec 29, 2020

atwix said:
you could also go revolutionary, it has insane bonuses on the military. But it requires a knowledgable and good player to even flip to this government form in this patch..

guide to it in spoiler below. You will be named revolutionary turkey!

While going for the new Napoleon's Ambition achievement I had some difficulty figuring out how to go revolutionary in the new patch. After digging through the game files I found that it has changed quite a bit, so I thought I would write this up to help anyone else looking to become revolutionary.

Please note that this information is based on having the Emperor DLC active. Without the DLC you can skip step 1 and, based on the disaster files, the revolution should be available.

This is a technical look at the requirements for becoming revolutionary. I did not explore the non-revolutionary options of the revolution disaster.

Edit: In the first draft of this I had under the requirements for the revolution disaster that your capital must be in Europe and have revolution spread to it. This was incorrect - the file has an OR not an AND. As of 1.30 you no longer need a European Capital to fire the revolution disaster.

Step 1: The Center of Revolution
The previous disaster is still used, with modifications, but is hidden at the start of the age of revolutions. To begin your journey towards liberating people from capitalism monarchy you must wait for an event to fire creating the first center of revolution. For anyone interested in testing or checking the game files, the event is center_of_revolution.1000 in the file /events/center_of_revolution_events.txt.

This is a province event that can fire once per game.

The requirements for the event to fire in a province are:

It is the Age of Revolutions.

The province has 30 development or more.

The province has 100% Enlightenment progress

The owner of the province is a great power, has embraced enlightenment, is not a subject nation and is not the Papal States.

The province does not have the province modifier "religious_center"

This event has a mean time to happen of 600 years. There are a huge list of factors that raise or lower this, allowing players to manipulate the event to have a much higher chance of firing in their own province. The factors are multiplicative - a factor greater than 1 increases the time to happen, a factor lower than 1 lowers the time to happen.

20 if the province is not in Europe

0.75 if the province is a capital

1.5 if the province is not in the same region as the owner's capital

0.8 if the province is the highest development province in Europe, or is outside Europe and has a higher development than any European Province

2 if the province is not in the same area as the owner's capital

0.9 if the province owner is a monarchy

0.9 if the province owner has embrace Industrialization

0.9 if the province has 100% progress towards Industrialization

1.2 if the province owner does not have the burghers estate

10 if the owner has under 10 absolutism

2 if the owner has under 20 absolutism

1.2 if the owner has under 30 absolutism

1.2 if the owner has under 40 absolutism

1.2 if the owner has under 50 absolutism

1.2 if the owner has under 60 absolutism

0.95 if the owner has 70 or more absolutism

0.9 if the owner has 80 or more absolutism

0.9 if the owner has 90 or more absolutism

0.9 if the owner has 100 or more absolutism

0.95 if the province has 35 or more development

0.95 if the province has 40 or more development

0.9 if the province has 45 or more development

0.9 if the province has 50 or more development

0.8 if the province owner has 50 or more revanchism

0.9 if the province owner has 20 or more loans

0.9 if the province owner has 30 or more loans

0.9 if the province owner has less than 1 stability

0.9 if the province owner has less than -1 stability

1.2 if the province owner has 3 stability

0.9 if the province owner has less than -10 prestige

0.9 if the province owner has less than -50 prestige

0.8 if the year is 1750 or later

0.8 if the year is 1765 or later

0.8 if the year is 1780 or later

0.5 if the year is 1800 or later

0.8 if the following conditions are met:

Province has 20 base production or 30 trade power

Province owner has the burghers, jains or vaisyas estates

One of the following is true

The burghers, jains and vaisyas have under 20 influence

The burghers, jains and vaisyas have under 25 loyalty

If you have multiple of these estates then all must be under 20 influence or under 25 loyalty

0.8 If the estate requirements in the factor above are met and trade and production together are 75% or more of national income

0.75 for each of the following flags set by country events:

revolutionary_sentiment_flour_wars

revolutionary_sentiment_many_loans

revolutionary_sentiment_necker_reforms

revolutionary_sentiment_3rd_estate_demands

Quite the list of factors! The basic idea of trashing your country to force the peasants to sieze what is rightfully theirs still exists, but now has a lot more math involved. Once the event fires it will create a center of revolution that begins spreading the revolution to your provinces.

Side note: There is a second event, center_of_revolution.1001, that can create a second center of revolution if the first is wiped out. It has a much shorter time to happen, but can't occur within 25 years of the first center being created (50 years if the province owner is the revolution target) and will only fire if the first center was destroyed.

Step 2: The Revolution Disaster
Once the revolution center has spawned it will start spreading revolution to nearby provinces - 3 at a time. You can check its progress in two ways:

The new Revolution political map mode

The Government Tab. Here you will see the progress of the revolution in your country

Once the progress reaches 20% for a country, the Revolution disaster can start. To see the disaster the following conditions must be met:

You have not had the revolution occur

You are not the Papal States

You are not France (France has it's own disaster) or you are France but are not a Monarchy

You are not a Celestial Empire

You are not a subject nation

You do not have the doom mechanic

It is the Age of Revolutions

You are not revolutionary

If the Emperor DLC is active:

You are a great power

You have 20% revolutionary spread

Your capital is in Europe OR has the revolution spread to it

If the Emperor DLC is not active:

You have at least 30 provinces

Your capital is in Europe

There is no Revolutionary Target

To start disaster progress, the following must be true:

You are not in a disaster

You have less than 2 stability

One of the following is true:

You have less than 0 stability

You have 50% revolution spread

You have 50 or more loans

You are bankrupt

You have 10 or more inflation

You have 10 or more war exhaustion

You have less than 0 prestige

You have a European capital and one of the following:

You have the largest standing army in Europe

You have the highest development among nations in Europe

Once started, progress halts if you have 3 stability. The disaster progress ticks up and once it hits 100, the disaster begins. The progress per month is dictated by the following factors, which are additive.

0.5 if you have more than 50, but less than 65 revolutionary spread

0.75 if you have more than 65, but less than 80 revolutionary spread

1 if you have 80 or more revolutionary spread

1 if you have less than 0 prestige

1 if you have 5 or more war exhaustion

0.5 if you have 10 to 24 loans

1 if you have 25 or more loans

0.5 if you have 70 to 79 absolutism

1 if you have 80 or more absolutism

2 if you are bankrupt

0.5 if you have a European capital and one of the following:

You have the largest standing army in Europe

You have the highest development in Europe

Once you hit 100 progress, the revolution starts for you.

Step 3: The Revolution arrives
Once the disaster fires you will decide whether to embrace or reject the revolution. Embracing the revolution immediately makes you a revolutionary republic. Reactionary rebels will spawn to try to end the revolution.

Rejecting the revolution spawns revolutionary rebels that will try to convert you to a revolutionary republic. I will not explore this option further as the moral choice is to always behead monarchs when you have a chance.

After embracing the revolution you can end out the disaster by meeting the following requirements:

With Emperor you must meet both of the following:

Have no rebel armies in your country, or provinces controlled by rebels

The disaster has been active for 20 years or you have 3 stability

Without Emperor you must meet one of the following:

Another nation is the revolutionary target

All of the following:

The disaster has been active for 20 years or you have 3 stability

You have no rebels or rebel controlled provinces

You are a monarchy or revolutionary republic

Step 4: The Revolution
Being revolutionary opens up some fun options. Absolutism is replaced by a new revolutionary fervor that grants up to 30% Admin Efficiency. You also can create unique revolutionary guard units that receive bonuses controlled by country decisions.

The new spread the revolution CB can be used on any target and spreads the revolution to all of their provinces for 60 war score. It also steals monarch points from the target and grants them to you. The amount scales on development - I received over 600 of each type of monarch points for spreading the revolution to the Ottomans.

There are also a few unique revolutionary country names:

The Mughals, Hindustan or Bharat will become Revolutionary Gurkani Empire

The Emperor of China will become Revolutionary China

You must be in the East Asian culture group

There are a number of tags that are not eligible for this name change

The Ottomans become Revolutionary Turkey

I hope this information is helpful to those of you looking to force the revolution. I wish you luck with empowering the proletariat.

There are 2 problems with going revolutionary as a WC-bound country.

The 20% spread required to fire the disaster is quite high for a country with 10k+ dev. Good players can get land faster than the rev center can convert it, and if you don't embrace the revolution in 20-30 years of the center appearing, the revolution just disappears.
Even if you embrace the revolution, after you've been revolutionary for a while you'll start to find rev spread everywhere. When nations embrace the revolution, you lose all CBs on them and are back to fabricating claims like its 1444 again.

I've spent like 5 hours trying to get over these 2 hurdles, but even big-brain plays like creating a little client state that embraces the revolution and then losing a "crush the revolution" war doesn't work, as they need to be a great power for you to use the "Spread the Revolution" peace option on yourself.

TheMeInTeam · Dec 30, 2020

I don't think rev is worth it now either, at least not for WC. Losing CB is bad, having a delay in conquest during last 100 years is bad, and even once you're target you have to wait a bit to drive zeal high enough to match absolutism's 30% admin efficiency contribution, which you should have already had for a long time. These days thanks to crown land even generic republics going 100+ absolutism can outperform going rev.

Every standard government with 100 absolutism performs better for WC. Monarchies have an option to end true regencies/avoid them forever (states general), republics can just run 4+ admin rulers forever and use 100 absolutism ASAP, theocracies have war score cost against other religions to stack with diplomatic to mimic the provinces taken/war of rev without actually needing to kneecap themselves in the late game to get it first.

Josar · Dec 30, 2020

You are right to Europa for last. This is very doable, but pay attention to what religions you attack and I'm what order for AE purposes. Russia might be the first nation you want to attack in Europe. You should heavily consider using client states, and passing the strong duchy privilege under the nobility tab for plus 2 relations (it is still possible to have 100 absolutism with just this privilege).

TheMeInTeam · Dec 30, 2020

IMO the wars vs Spain/GB should be somewhat early priority, pick up their forts + non-European provinces (AE isn't bad then), and these are often long wars so doing them sooner prevents needing truce breaks. Will probably want to do other wars simultaneously if you have the troop count to save time.

LordPavel · Dec 30, 2020

You dont have to wait for the truce timers. Attack Muscovy, take a part. Attack their ally and call in the war an ally (Riazan, Crimea, Livonia order ?) and feed this country with Muscovy. You can make this country weaker, for free diplo or admin points and no AE. Coalition will be weaker (will not form ?). Or you can start a second wars and white peace (5 years of truce timers vs 15) and save 5-7 years for the second conquest war.

You should focus on top 5 country. 1 or 2k is big.

Ruian · Dec 31, 2020

That's pretty much what your map should have looked like 100 years ago. It would be extremely painful to finish on time, I would restart.

Search

Jan 3rd 1721 - Is my WC over?

zehive

Recruit

grotaclas

Field Marshal

zehive

Recruit

atwix

Manager of Micro

Reman

Field Marshal

TheMeInTeam

Field Marshal

Josar

Colonel

TheMeInTeam

Field Marshal

LordPavel

Major

Ruian

Lt. General