Ivaring line a bit broken

[Moarice]

It would seem that in post-Old Gods start the dynastic tree of house af Ivar is a bit broken.

 

[theKing1988]

We will take a look at it. Thanks for reporting it

 

[Erilaz]

It's always been that way I believe. It's caused by the lack of a link between the various supposed descendants of Ívarr in Ireland and the more or less secure lines of Mann and the Isles. I personally don't care about it, since the alternative (adding lots of fictional characters to link up) is worse in my opinion. Another option would be giving them their own dynasties (based on the Norse names of Cork and Waterford for example), but that would significantly weaken the Norse-Gaelic settlements in Ireland.

 

[Rylock]

It'd be nice if the dynasty display could support a "here there be dragons" feature, where dynasties lines could link back to the ether.

 

[R'hllor]

It'd be nice if the dynasty display could support a "here there be dragons" feature, where dynasties lines could link back to the ether.

In the AGOT mod several family trees have "characters" known as "the line of x" to link them back to mythical ancestors. Maybe HIP could handle incomplete family trees similarly? IMO even inventing random characters to link dynasty trees together would be better than having random seemingly unrelated people in the dynasties....

 

[Admiral Fischer]

It's always been that way I believe. It's caused by the lack of a link between the various supposed descendants of Ívarr in Ireland and the more or less secure lines of Mann and the Isles. I personally don't care about it, since the alternative (adding lots of fictional characters to link up) is worse in my opinion. Another option would be giving them their own dynasties (based on the Norse names of Cork and Waterford for example), but that would significantly weaken the Norse-Gaelic settlements in Ireland.

There actually is a link between those rulers, check norse.txt and norsegaelic.txt files in characters folder.

The only problem is those two mysterious rulers of Wexford and Waterford below:

1000226404 = {
    name = "Gofraid" #Viking of Wexford
    dynasty=20084
    martial=15
    diplomacy=6
    intrigue=3
    stewardship=10
    religion="catholic"
    culture="norsegaelic"
    1040.1.1={
        birth="1040.1.1"
    }
    1100.1.1={
        death="1100.1.1"
    }
}
1000226424 = {
    name = "Wadter" #Viking of Waterford
    dynasty=20084
    martial=10
    diplomacy=11
    intrigue=9
    stewardship=8
    religion="catholic"
    culture="norsegaelic"
    1035.1.1={
        birth="1035.1.1"
    }
    1100.1.1={
        death="1100.1.1"
    }
}

Removing those two rulers from the dynasty would fix the problem.


EDIT:

Just looked into the files again and found those references from norse.txt and norwegian.txt below:

83365 = {
    name="Ivar"
    dynasty=9214
    martial=7
    diplomacy=6
    intrigue=7
    stewardship=6
    religion="catholic"
    culture=norse
    946.1.1={
        birth="946.1.1"
    }
    1000.7.1={
        death="1000.7.1"
    }
}

83366 = {
    name="Sigtrygg"
    dynasty=9214
    martial=5
    diplomacy=6
    intrigue=5
    stewardship=6
    religion="catholic"
    culture=norse
    father = 83365
    975.1.1={
        birth="975.1.1"
    }
    1020.1.1 = {
        add_spouse=83369
    }
    1022.7.1={
        death="1022.7.1"
    }
}

83367 = {
    name="Rögnvaldr"
    dynasty=9214
    martial=5
    diplomacy=6
    intrigue=5
    stewardship=6
    religion="catholic"
    culture=norse
    father = 83365
    977.1.1={
        birth="977.1.1"
    }
    1035.7.1={
        death="1035.7.1"
    }
}

83370 = {
    name="Ragnvald"
    dynasty=9214
    martial=5
    diplomacy=6
    intrigue=5
    stewardship=6
    religion="catholic"
    culture="norwegian"
    father=83366
    mother=83369
    1021.1.1={
        birth="1021.1.1"
    }
    1090.7.1={
        death="1090.7.1"
    }
}

83371 = {
    name="Olav"
    dynasty=9214
    martial=6
    diplomacy=5
    intrigue=5
    stewardship=4
    religion="catholic"
    culture="norwegian"
    father=83370
    1066.1.1={
        birth="1066.1.1"
    }
    1130.7.1={
        death="1130.7.1"
    }
}

83372 = {
    name="Ivar"
    dynasty=9214
    martial=6
    diplomacy=4
    intrigue=5
    stewardship=5
    religion="catholic"
    culture="norwegian"
    father=83371
    1097.1.1={
        birth="1097.1.1"
    }
    1155.7.1={
        death="1155.7.1"
    }
}

83373 = {
    name="Ragnvald"
    dynasty=9214
    martial=7
    diplomacy=4
    intrigue=7
    stewardship=4
    religion="catholic"
    culture="norwegian"
    father=83372
    1133.1.1={
        birth="1133.1.1"
    }
    1185.7.1={
        death="1185.7.1"
    }
}

Ivar, the founder of this dynasty 9214 is actually this man. His dynasty's existence was somehow overlooked by HIP genealogists however, they weren't even transferred to norsegaelic.txt where they should be.

Checked FMG site to see if they had any descendant but found none, apparently the 'fake line' starts from id 83370. I believe renaming this character to 'Wadter' from 'Ragnvald' and giving him the county would be the best solution for the Waterford problem. Not sure about Wexford though, can't he just have 'af Veisafjord' dynasty or something?


EDIT2:
I'm awfully sorry for this spamming but, now I believe the name 'Wadter' is possibly a result of misinterpretation of this line coming from a 18th century book:

I have another coin of one Anlaf, Number 11, Plate I. with this inscription, ANLAF REX A. which I at first took for Rex Anglie, (...) and therefore think that this coin belongs to Anlaf, one of the Danish kings of Waterford, for so I read the word WADTER on the reverse of this well-preserved piece, which weights 17 1/4 grains.

A webpage from the Waterford County Museum says:

(...) It appears that, about this time, there was a mint, a silver coin having been found with the inscription "Wadter" on the reverse, and attributed to one of the Danish kings.

EDIT3:
Finally figured out that I could have just used edit button Deleted and merged two posts on my own.

 

[RhaegarTelcontarTargaryen]

It is not the only dynasty, several (Westsaexe, af Munsö, Yngling I think, Sigurdsing / Knytlings maybe?, some Irish), have several characters that are unlinked. I am well aware that some characters are disputed historically, but so are many that are present, because if only one that are 100% certain to be real, there wouldn't be enough characters left really. So I think those dynasty lines should be fixed, as I think they are in the recent vanilla / CK2+ mod.

 

[theKing1988]

It is not the only dynasty, several (Westsaexe, af Munsö, Yngling I think, Sigurdsing / Knytlings maybe?, some Irish), have several characters that are unlinked. I am well aware that some characters are disputed historically, but so are many that are present, because if only one that are 100% certain to be real, there wouldn't be enough characters left really. So I think those dynasty lines should be fixed, as I think they are in the recent vanilla / CK2+ mod.

Been looking into all of those. The only one i could find in our development version is a problem with a Knytling woman who should be Sigurding, and is therefore messing up the Knytling family tree. I can only assume the others have been fixed already during our latest round of work

 

[RhaegarTelcontarTargaryen]

Been looking into all of those. The only one i could find in our development version is a problem with a Knytling woman who should be Sigurding, and is therefore messing up the Knytling family tree. I can only assume the others have been fixed already during our latest round of work

Could be, I'm playing Zeus8, and in it there are some characters that are not connected in af Munsö, Ivaring, Wessex (Westsaxe) and few other minors like Breizh, Ufing or Gautske...